30-60 hand

[andyfox]

Cut-off is about a break-even player, probably more passive than the average 30-60 player. Today is not his day. He has gone through 3 racks and has been calling down everyone and his uncle. He has won very few of these showdowns. He is clearly on tilt. His normal game is a "C"; today it's a "D-".

On this hand, everyone folds to him and he limps from the cut-off. Button raises. Button is pretty aggressive and fairly tricky, a solid winning "B" or "B+" player.

Small blind now 3-bets. He is a break-even player, probably about average or slightly below in terms of agressiveness, slightly trickier than average. A 3-bet here, out of position, definitely means a 3-bet hand though, especially since he respects the button's game. He's a "C+" or "B-" player.

Cut-off now caps (4 bet cap). He seems frustrated and is down to about 40 chips on his 4th rack. Both opponents call.

Flop is 9-4-3 rainbow. Small blind bets. Cut-off raises. Button cold-calls. Small blind calls.

Turn is another 9, putting a flush draw on board. Small blind bets again. Cut-off raises again.

You're on the button. What would you do with:

Pocket Kings?
Pocket Queens?
Pocket Jacks?

and would you have played the flop differently with those hands?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
You're on the button. What would you do with:

Pocket Kings?
Pocket Queens?
Pocket Jacks?

and would you have played the flop differently with those hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

That depends on what range of hands I think SB will fold to a flop or turn 3-bet (that he probably realizes might be lighter than normal) from me. Could he fold Queens, Kings or Aces? Could he call down all the way no matter what with Tens or Jacks?

My general thought here is if CO has a hand, so be it. I'll take my chances against him.

With Kings I'll probably just 3-bet the flop (and go from there). Having not done that I'd probably go ahead and 3-bet the turn, though I might not if that is sure to lose SB w/ worse hands.

With Queens/Jacks I'll probably call the flop and call the turn unless I think SB can lay down a better/equal hand.

[JimRivett]

Hi Andy,

Cutoff needs to adopt the one rack rule. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

It appears the cutoff is determined to bet this all the way, however I feel the button's main problem is the small blind. Since the small blind respects the button's play, I would tend to 3 bet the flop for information and also attempt to get the sb to fold, and also knowing that the cut-off will probably cap.


Turn is another 9, putting a flush draw on board. Small blind bets again. Cut-off raises again.

If we get to this point after my 3 bet flop and presumably cap by the cut-off, I would tend to go into "call down" mode.

Regards, Jim

[snakehead]

kk: raise
qq: call
jj: fold

I would have reraised the flop with kk or qq, just called with jj. the main reason to reraise the flop is to push the sb off of ak or aq. since he bet out again on the turn, he probably has a pair. when I fold jj, I just hope it isn't tt.

[Diplomat]

After I kicked myself for not raising the flop, I'd three-bet the turn with KK. I'd have an awfully hard time calling with JJ, and almost always would muck it. QQ is a real problem; I'd probably call against my judgment.

-Diplomat

[Depraved]

3bet with all hands. The loose goose in the middle is a nice tool for this play. If the tilting player actually had a hand, I'd just shrug it off as unfortunate. My goal would be to push the SB off his hand.

My primary interest would be the play of the SB after my 3bet. If he coldcalled this raise, I'd start sweating with JJ and possibly QQ. Both would be candidates for checks on the river. I don't think I would check KK on the river though. If he 4bet, I'd be almost certain I was on a two outer (luckily I'd get a little over 20-1 for calling the cap).

[skp]

Unlike Nebiolo, I usually peek. I think that all of the responses thus far are pretty good. I like reraising with all 3 hands to put the screws to the sb who may well fold even AA (although I think that given his flop play, he does not have AA and may not even have a pocket pair i.e. If he had AA, why the hell would he not 3 bet the flop and why the hell would he bet the turn when the top card on the flop pairs up?).

In any event, your main concern is the sb. The tilter may have the 9 but he's gonna have to prove it by showing it down. So, 3 bet the turn. After all, sb can't rule out a 9 in your hand (you could have raised preflop to isolate the tilter and then just coldcalled the flop with top pair) and he also must consider that the tilter may have finally hit a hand. It would be a real coup if you raise with JJ and sb folds QQ. For that reason, it may be more important to 3 bet with JJ than with KK although I would 3 bet in either case.

BTW, I would say that you are being extremely modest in describing yourself as a "B" player. Perhaps, you are a B+ on your off days so I can buy that classification at least some of the time.

[nykenny]

Since the HERO didn't raise on the flop (which i would do the most of the time if no Ace flop), he has now just mis represented his hand. It's fine if the intention is to have the cut-off bet the turn, and raise to knock out SB. But after capping before the flop with good player involved, i'd try to be as straight forward as possible, so that i can get some information there.

having not raised the flop, and agression changed hands again on an improved turn board without the turn card improving the hero's hand, i'd vote for folding all hands. however if i had reraised the flop and
1) got capped, i'd just call down if it's only one bet on each street.
2) got called, i'd bet and maybe check the river depending on how the board develops.

anyway, i think going live after showing weakness on flop, on a improved board that doesn't hit you, can bring you much trouble sometimes. it's like slowplaying over pair headsup when river brings 4 straight and 4 flush, and u go nuts at the pot then...

Kenny

[andyfox]

"But after capping before the flop with good player involved, i'd try to be as straight forward as possible, so that i can get some information there."

Agree, should have raised the flop.

"having not raised the flop, and agression changed hands again on an improved turn board without the turn card improving the hero's hand, i'd vote for folding all hands."

I had pocket queens and indeed did fold. SB had pocket aces and cut-off pocket kings.

[andyfox]

I had pocket queens. I agree that a 3-bet on the flop was called for, although there's no way sb is going to fold pocket aces and there's no way cut-off is going to fold anything at this point.

Turns out sb did have pocket aces. The only thing I can figure is that he didn't reraise the flop so he could bet and then 3-bet what he took to be an upcoming turn raise from the tilter. Which is exactly what happened.

I just couldn't imagine sb betting out again on the turn with jacks or tens. And now when cut-off raises, well, I capped pre-flop and cold-called the flop raise, so I couldn't imagine my hand was good.

Thanks for the compliment; the way I played this hand might make you change your opinion though /images/graemlins/grin.gif. I think my description was a fair assessment of the way my opponents see me.

[andyfox]

I couldn't imagine the sb (hippy Steve) betting the flop with AK or AQ after I capped pre-flop. No way I'm getting him off a pocket pair bigger than mine (I had queens).

[mikelow]

With Jacks, I'd three-bet to try and drive get the SB out. A "free" card could ruin your hand. Ditto with Queens.

With Kings, you are less worried about a cheap card on the river, so I would call this one down. Saves a bet if SB has aces.

[skp]

Actually, the 3 bet I was referring to was on the turn. I don't particularly mind your smoothcall on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I just couldn't imagine sb betting out again on the turn with jacks or tens.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to me that it is more important for sb to bet Jacks or tens on the turn than Aces or Kings. If I had AA in his shoes, I would probably check the turn for sure. No real free card worries as the tilter is sure to bet the turn to represent trip 9's and I avoid getting raised in case he does have trips.

[rharless]

Regarding self-assessment of B/B+, I have to agree with skp that this is far too modest, at least of the posts that I have read from you.

I think sometimes on 2+2, we get so much exposure to so many strong analytical players that we lose sight of the full poker spectrum.