F*&K THIS PIECE OF S@#T GAME!!!!

[34TheTruth34]

Here are some hands from a session that I played today at Party Poker. Hopefully you'll enjoy them as much as I did...


<font color="red">Hand 1 </font>
I raise in MP with AK. Only the BB calls. Flop K-8-8. He check-calls. Turn T. He check-calls. River 3. He checks. I think for a second. I really don't wanna bet. Ah, what the hell...He check-raises. I call and he shows 85o.



<font color="red">Hand 2 </font>

I limp in UTG with JTs (a play I don't always make, but this game was ultra loose passive, as you're about to see). Flop J-rag-rag. 6 way action. I bet, UTG+1 calls, everybody else folds. Turn rag. I bet, he calls. River rag. I bet, he calls and shows AJ for the win.



<font color="red"> Hand 3 </font>

I'm in the BB with 97. Flop 9-8-6. SB bets, I raise, they all fold, SB calls. Turn T. SB bets, I raise, he calls. River Q. He bets, I call. He shows J8 for the win.



<font color="red"> Hand 4 </font>

I limp in MP with 77, 5 way action. Flop 6-6-3, two diamonds. UTG bets, I raise, BB calls two cold (keep that in mind), UTG calls. Turn J. They check, I bet, they call. River Q. BB bets out, UTG folds. This looks to me as a desperation bet, (the flush draw on the flop didn't get there) so I call and he has J2 (no diamonds) for the win!



<font color="red"> Hand 5 </font>

I limp in MP with QTs. 6 way action. Flop Q-J-7 with a two flush that I don't have. Checked to me and I bet and get two callers, the SB and BB. Turn A, putting three spades on the board. SB bets, BB raises, and I fold. River rag. SB bets, BB calls. SB has KJ with no spades, BB mucks!



<font color="red"> Hand 6 </font>

I open raise with QQ and get one caller. Flop K-Q-6 rainbow. I bet, he raises, I reraise he calls. He calls the turn and river (both rags) and shows KK for the win!



FINAL SESSION STATS

hands 467
hands won 2% (usually 7%-10%)
flops seen 18% (usually ~25%)


Comments? Nevermind, I don't wanna hear 'em...



DOWN WITH THE EVIL EMPIRE!!!

[Dynasty]

Hand 1: When one opponent raises with AKo, it is +EV to defend your big blind with 85o. You just don't do it because it's impossible to put your opponent on a no pair hand. But, your opponent made no -EV plays.

Then, you got completely outplayed in the hand.

Hand 2: You put money into the pot drawing to a 3-outer.

Hand 3: ??? Your opponent played his hand well. There's no way he should ever fold.

Hand 4: So, you're saying 77 didn't hold up on a Q,J,6,6,3 board?

Hand 5: You got completely outplayed again.

Hand 6: Your putting money into to pot drawing to a 1-outer.

So, in summary.

You were outplayed twice.

You were putting in multiple bets drawing extremely thin twice.

An opponent played well and hit a reasonable draw out with the proper odds.

You had one "bad beat" with 77 on a Q,J,6,6,3 board.

It's seems the #1 reason for your losing is you.

[jdsmoooth]

I'm only going to comment on hand 2 and 4.
Hand 2. Are you really that upset about losing to a better hand?
Hand 4. You let the BB beat you, why would you limp in middle position with wired 7's. Then you liked the flop and tried to get a bunch of low limit, loose players out of a pot they already committed to. Good luck. Your raise pre-flop probably would have gotten rid of the BB.
You suffered a couple of bad beats, especially the QQ. Don't get mad, get smarter.

[jstnrgrs]

I've had many hands similar to the ones described in this post, and I'm not seeing how to play them differently.

Hand 1: If I'd been the opponent, I'd have raised sooner. If all he does is call, how can one put him on trips?
(How does one avoid getting out played in this hand? I'd have played it exactly the same way)

Hand 2: How can one know that there are only three outs if all he does is call. (Again, I'd have played the same way)

Hand 3: Again, I don't see another way to play this differently (except perhapse to just call on the flop)

Hand 4: Okay you said this was a bad beat, so I assume that you agree that the way the origional poster played was correct?

Hand 5: Again, I don't see the problem with the way this was played. How can you call a raise cold with only top pair crappy kicker?

Hand 6: Again, I'd have played the same way. With only one raise he could have as little as AK. (How can you put him on a set after only one raise? If I'd have had KK, I'd have caped it then raised once on the turn before slowing down.)

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 5

I limp in MP with QTs. 6 way action. Flop Q-J-7 with a two flush that I don't have. Checked to me and I bet and get two callers, the SB and BB. Turn A, putting three spades on the board. SB bets, BB raises, and I fold. River rag. SB bets, BB calls. SB has KJ with no spades, BB mucks!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 5: You got completely outplayed again.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but can he avoid being outplayed here? He had 2 passive players call him on the flop, then come to life when the ace that completes the flush draw hits on the turn. He has second pair, not a great kicker, and a gutshot straight draw. It is 2 big bets to him with a 7.5 big bet pot. Isn't this a fairly easy fold? It is a bummer to be outplayed, but I don't see how he could avoid it here.

[CMangano]

Uhm, you wanna see my stats for all of last week?!?!

Seriously, this was what was happening to me just about every session last week. Though, I did have a couple 0% win days thrown in there, so just know it can get much, much worse.

[Dynasty]

I would have played each hand exactly the same way or very close.

But, I wouldn't feel the need to say "F*&amp;K THIS PIECE OF S@#T GAME!!!!" which suggests that he wants to blame others for the money he lost instead of blaming himself.

[Homer]

But, I wouldn't feel the need to say "F*&amp;K THIS PIECE OF S@#T GAME!!!!" which suggests that he wants to blame others for the money he lost instead of blaming himself.

He shouldn't blame himself either, assuming he played the hands well. He should just chalk it up to "[censored] happens".

-- Homer

[huzitup2]

by (or reprinted by) Mike Caro; "you" flop a set of 9s in an eight way pot - capped preflop - to a board of 9-6-3/rainbow.

The problem is, because of the hands held by the other players you have somewhere in the neighborhood of a 2-3% chance of winding up with the winning hand.

*

This "pothole" is, always has, and always will be a source of frustration to those who play in loose, rambunctious games.

*

The solution:

Try to make a mental note of the times that you flop the nuts in a pre-flop capped, multiway pot, win, BUT -

- never get a chance to raise because it comes around to you capped on every round !

*

If your play is anything close to solid (and I'm sure it is) you may experience the former more often, but your net profits will be huge in the long run when due - in large part - to those times when you are the one holding that flopped monster that gets bet (and bet, and bet) for you.

*

You didn't mention the stakes at which these hands occurred, but it really doesn't matter as long as they didn't put a HUGE dent in your bankroll.

I don't know exactly how much you lost for this session, but I'm guessing that it was NOT more than you CAN (and probably have) won in one - or perhaps two - of the pots I spoke of above.

*

I played a long session of loose and wild (though not crazy) online low-limit earlier today.

I was stuck 30 big bets after the first hour, and just under 50 b/b after 3 hours.

*

An hour after that I was ahead 20 b/b; I finished the session 6 hours later a 70 b/b winner.

If this had been 10-20 (it wasn't) I would have been stuck $1,000 after 3 hours, ahead $400 an hour later, and a $1,400 winner at the end of the [10 hour] session.

*

I've mentioned a few times that I am one of those "freaks" who don't get worked up when some imbecile hits a 2 or 3 outer to beat me out of a huge pot; I do get a little p--sed of when I get out-maneuvered (OK, OK, outplayed) and muck the winner in a big pot, but even this wears off after a minute or two.

*

I gave up betting sports because some of the s--t that I saw made me question the integrity of the game.

- I should mention that my "freaky" nature also keeps me from believing that any of the major [online poker] sites are plagued with widespread cheating. I don't doubt for a minute that there are some unsrupulous c--ks---ers out there playing "together", but I do NOT believe that the software feeds "friendly flops" to bad players thus allowing them to survive a little longer. (I also believe that the number of "teams" is small enough as to not be a major concern).

I definitely do not believe any of the stories about bots (or players who "know" what the next card will be).

*

I DO have losing sessions - some of which are brutal - but I comfort myself by thinking about how many times the "2-out-hitters" have gone to the cashier to replenish.

*

I hope that helped.

By the way, how much are you ahead this year ?

- It's a rhetorical question; I don't expect you to divulge the exact amount, but for some reason I have the feeling it's a tidy sum.

*

Best wishes,

- H

[lil']

Everybody keeps giving the link S@#T
But when I click on it nothing happens. Do I need a special password?

[Mike Gallo]

Hey " Truth"

Comments? Nevermind, I don't wanna hear 'em...

Do yourself a favor. Next time wait at least 12 hours before you post after a horrible session.

I think you know your mistakes and you posted this in anger. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

With the exception of hand #4, I'd say you're able to put yourself in the shoes of the players who beat you and shrug and say "that's life." Well, OK, hand #2 you would've played more aggressively.

Hand #4, on the other hand, is bound to make your head explode.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I probably wouldn't make that kind of post either, but different people blow off steam in different ways.

[hutz]

I know the password. I'll sell it to you for $10.50. PM me and we can make arrangements to transfer the money through our Party accounts. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Am I the only one troubled by the fact that you have changed your handle from a classic TV character to the weird moniker bestowed on you by elysium?

[Barry]

Speaking of elysium...

I haven't seen his twisted sentences around for some time now.

[Mike Gallo]

Am I the only one troubled by the fact that you have changed your handle from a classic TV character to the weird moniker bestowed on you by elysium?

I sent a pm to Homie about the same thing. Scary. We must have the Vulcan mind melt going on /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lil']

$10.50? How fortunate. Through a rather odd and peculiar set of circumstances, I just happened to receive exactly that amount of money last night.

It's a deal!

[34TheTruth34]

This post generated a lot of response, most of which I think is pretty interesting. Your response was the most interesting. First of all, something you said in repsponse to another post in this thread:


he wants to blame others for the money he lost instead of blaming himself

I respect your other opinions and if you want to say I got outplayed, I played badly, I'm an idiot, I'm retarded, whatever, I can live with that. But to say that I'm blaming someone else for my losses is way out of line, even for you. I'm not blaming anyone but me for my losses, I never have blamed anyone else, and I never will. The reason I posted these hands is to show some of the crazier things that can go on during a session. And the frustration that can result. I actually didn't even lose that much money (considering how bad I played/ran during this session) during this session. The thing that got me the most mad about this session was the fact that my opponents' were rewarded for their bad play.

Hand 1: Who would call a legitimate raise out of their BB with 85? Would you really? This seems ridiculous. As far as the river decision, if I had posted the hand here and stopped before I bet the river I would have got about 30 replies (probably from you too) saying "he hasn't done anything but respond to your play so far, easy value bet on the river". I don't see how I could have gotten away from the hand.

Hand 2:
you put money into the pot drawing to a 3-outer

Well, no kidding. Considering I was never raised, had top pair, decent kicker, and the board was a jack and a bunch of rags, exactly how could this be avoided?

Hand 3:

Your opponent played his hand well.

are you kidding? He bet the worst hand twice, got raised twice, and hit his 3-outer gutshot on the river.

Hand 4: Clearly you're missing the point here. The point isn't that 77 didn't hold up on a board with a jack, a queen, and 3 diamonds. The point is that my opponent called two bets cold with J2--no pair and no draw. I'm sure you think, however, that he played the hand well and that there's "no way he should ever fold".

Hand 5: I guess I got outplayed, but when an overcard to your pair comes (one that puts a three-flush on the board nonetheless) and it's two bets cold to you, I think a fold is a reasonable play. How could I know this idiot was betting almost nothing and the other idiot was raising with less than nothing?

Hand 6: Obviously there was no way I could get away from this hand, I was actually pretty lucky that he saved me like 2 or 3 bets. This hand just pissed me off because I was sure I had finally won a hand, especially when I hadn't been raised on the big bet streets.

The reason I posted these hands was to show some of the annoying, frustrating things that can happen during a session, not to blame you or anyone else for my losses. I think in almost all of these hands, my opponents were rewarded for their horrendously bad play. I think most people would play the hands exactly the way I did.



it seems the #1 reason for your losing is you

It always has been and it always will be.

[HUSKER'66]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: you put money into the pot drawing to a 3-outer.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you get a 3 outer on this hand? Hero has a 10/Js and the flop comes out Jxx63 (is this right?). I see more than three outs....am I missing (or adding) something? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[CrackerZack]

Saying he got outplayed is a bit harsh even if it is true. There is little if any reason to put these opponents on hands that beat him, or that he's folding the best hand, etc. Its very easy to outplay someone when you defend the blind with cheese, flop a monster and they have no clue where you stand. Doesn't make the playee a bad player, just in a bad situation.

Truth, I like your play on all hands, crappy luck, but your opponents didn't really do anything that wrong or that unusual. Don't get frustrated, keep you head up and get back out there.

GL.

[34TheTruth34]

I'm not sure exactly what your post means. I wanted to post the hands immediately because I wanted to hear what people had to say about them. Waiting 12 hours or a day, or a week, or a month isn't going to change the fact that they happened.

I think you know your mistakes and you posted this in anger.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean. I don't know my mistakes, I feel I played all of the hands reasonably well. I didn't post this in anger, I posted it partly out of frustration but mostly because I wanted you guys to comment about them.

The part about not wanting to hear your comments was tongue-in-cheek, of course I do or I wouldn't post the hands to begin with. I just know there's gonna be some posts telling me how bad I played, that's all.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
How did you get a 3 outer on this hand? Hero has a 10/Js and the flop comes out Jxx63 (is this right?). I see more than three outs....am I missing (or adding) something?

[/ QUOTE ]

The winner had AJ, we don't know the board to know if truth had a backdoor draw. Only the 3 tens gave our hero a winner.

[34TheTruth34]

Hand 2. Are you really that upset about losing to a better hand?

Not upset at all. I was just surprised. First of all, I didn't get raised at any point, so how could I put him on such a strong hand? Second, how could I possibly get away from my hand? One of the most frustrating things that happens to me on a regular basis while playing LL hold 'em is expecting to win a hand after you get called on the river, but then being shocked when you see your opponent flip over a better hand that he never bet or raised with at any point.

[ropey]

Quit your whining. Bend over and take it like a man. Its poker, it happens. The next time you have a great session because these idiots are calling you down with junk, I don't want to see a post about how these idiots paid you off. If you play smart, the money will end up on your end of the table. Poker is one LONG game.

-ropey

[34TheTruth34]

Isn't this a fairly easy fold? It's a bummer to be outplayed, but I don't see how he could avoid it here.

Exactly how I felt about the hand. Actually, it's pretty much how I feel about all these hands.

[34TheTruth34]

There is little if any reason to put these opponents on hands that beat him, or that he's folding the best hand, etc.

This is basically what I was getting at by posting these hands.


I like your play on all [these] hands

It's not even that I played the hands "well" necessarily, it's just that I feel like I played these hands the only way I possibly could have.



DOWN WITH THE EVIL EMPIRE!!! p.s., what's up with everyone changing their screen names all of a sudden?

[34TheTruth34]

I had JT with no straight draw, he had AJ on a jack-high flop. Only one of the three remaining tens gives me a winner.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Hand 3: He bet the worst hand twice, got raised twice, and hit his 3-outer gutshot on the river.

Every time he calls he has odds to draw to what he believes are 7 outs.

[34TheTruth34]

Every time he calls he has odds to draw to what he believes are 7 outs

You're right, but clowns who can't figure out that their hand is no good piss me off. It's like I can see his thinking:

"hmm...I guess I'll bet my middle pair into a whole crowd of people."

"oh, I got raised. Might as well call"

"well, the turn didn't really help my hand except to give me a double-gutsot one card srtraight draw. I guess I'll bet again"

"oh wow, I got raised again. I guess he's not screwing around. Oh well, better call and hope to draw out"

"yeah, I hit my gutshot. I guess I should bet now"


If the clown took a second to realize that I had a straight, he could have at least check-raised the river. And who bets middle pair, decent kicker into the whole table on a coordinated board anyway? Betting a garbage hand into a bunch of people is just asking to get raised. As a matter of fact, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that his flop bet will get raised 80% of the time given the average Party LL player and that board. Now what??? Oh yeah, call and draw out. Good lord.

[HUSKER'66]

[ QUOTE ]
the winner had AJ.......only the 3 tens gave our hero a winner

[/ QUOTE ]

OH! So you and Dynasty are using your secret spy glasses! /images/graemlins/grin.gif That is the only way you can calculate 3 outs. Hero has J/10....Jxx?? is the board. I count 2 J's ( I don't have those xray glasses that you guys wear ( where do I go to buy some? /images/graemlins/wink.gif) and the three 10's that you mentioned giving me 5 outs. The way that the hero's adversary played the hand, he can't be blamed for not putting him on a J in the pocket. I agree TP with a 10 as your kicker isn't a strong hand, but the whole "3 outs" comment made me think that I had missed something. /images/graemlins/confused.gif Just proves there's more than one way to play this game.

[Mike Gallo]

Paul, "The Truth" Pierce,


Waiting 12 hours or a day, or a week, or a month isn't going to change the fact that they happened.

Yes but it will allow you to look at the hands with less emotion.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean. I don't know my mistakes, I feel I played all of the hands reasonably well. I didn't post this in anger, I posted it partly out of frustration

Hence my point. You posted out of frustration and without mental clarity.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have those xray glasses that you guys wear ( where do I go to buy some?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll sell you some for $10.50.

[ QUOTE ]
The way that the hero's adversary played the hand, he can't be blamed for not putting him on a J in the pocket.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[ QUOTE ]
the whole "3 outs" comment made me think that I had missed something.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was an after the fact analysis.

[nichtgut]

Hi
Though I know how it's like to feel unlucky, I have a few comments.


Hand 2

I limp in UTG with JTs (a play I don't always make, but this game was ultra loose passive, as you're about to see). Flop J-rag-rag. 6 way action. I bet, UTG+1 calls, everybody else folds. Turn rag. I bet, he calls. River rag. I bet, he calls and shows AJ for the win.

I always limp UTG with JTs in the loose party games. And a far better play is to go for the check-raise on the flop.


Hand 5

I limp in MP with QTs. 6 way action. Flop Q-J-7 with a two flush that I don't have. Checked to me and I bet and get two callers, the SB and BB. Turn A, putting three spades on the board. SB bets, BB raises, and I fold. River rag. SB bets, BB calls. SB has KJ with no spades, BB mucks!

You simply got outplayed here. But I think you made a good fold. Nothing upsetting about this hand, in my opinion.

Good luck,

Nicht Gut

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Believe me, un understand the frustration, but after all, all you're seeing is the flip side of what makes these games so good. They don't think about what you have and never consider that their outs may not actually be outs. They don't hit more than they do hit. You'll make it up.

[Ulysses]

a) Note that Dynasty also said he'd play most of the hands just as you did.

b) Look to holm's post for the right answer.

[JTG51]

...clowns who can't figure out that their hand is no good piss me off.

Please tell me that's a joke.

[JTG51]

One of the most frustrating things that happens to me on a regular basis while playing LL hold 'em is expecting to win a hand after you get called on the river, but then being shocked when you see your opponent flip over a better hand that he never bet or raised with at any point.


So what it all comes down to is you'd like your opponents to play better?

[chesspain]

When that happens, I am relieved that I didn't lose even more money on the hand /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the most frustrating things that happens to me on a regular basis while playing LL hold 'em is expecting to win a hand after you get called on the river, but then being shocked when you see your opponent flip over a better hand that he never bet or raised with at any point.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't read through most of this thread, so I just saw this. You should learn to love this. When this happens to me I'm surprised, but usually breathe a sigh of relief since I often times would have gone off for a few more big bets in the course of the hand had my opponent pushed back.

I mean, you bet the river and hope to be raised so you can 3-bet w/ your flopped flush. Your opponent just calls. You turn over your flush and he turns over a bigger one. Frustrating? That's awesome!

[JTG51]

Uh, just double checking, but you know I didn't say that, right?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh, just double checking, but you know I didn't say that, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Dynasty]

Hand 3

I'm in the BB with 97. Flop 9-8-6. SB bets, I raise, they all fold, SB calls. Turn T. SB bets, I raise, he calls. River Q. He bets, I call. He shows J8 for the win.

This is probably the only hand among the six which is acutally worthy of serious discussion. And, most of your comments on it are rather poor.

[ QUOTE ]
And who bets middle pair, decent kicker into the whole table on a coordinated board anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

People who play well and people who play poorly but accidentally make the correct play.

[ QUOTE ]
Betting a garbage hand into a bunch of people is just asking to get raised. As a matter of fact, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that his flop bet will get raised 80% of the time given the average Party LL player and that board

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the crux of your problem. You don't understand that he should want to get raised on the flop, especially if he's just getting raised by a 7 looking for a free card. There's a very good chance that a pair of 8's is the best hand on the flop. But, it's very vulnerable. He should desperately want somebody to raise and fold out hands with a Ten, 5, or overcards in them.

[34TheTruth34]

It wasn't a joke, I just said it incorrectly. I guess what I meant was that when somebody can't figure out that their hand is no good and drastically overplays it (not that this opponent necessarily did that) and then gets lucky and hits to win, that pisses me off. Obviously, when opponents' overplay their hands against me, that by itself doesn't piss me off.

[34TheTruth34]

again, I think you know what I was trying to say, but in the event that you really don't:

It's frustrating when you are sure you have a winner before you flip the cards over, but it turns out you don't. I am sometimes happy when I see such a hand because I know how much I could have lost when playing against myself or another 2+2er. Doesn't mean I want my opponents' to play better.

[MrDannimal]

I know what you're saying. On the top level, you're expecting to win because YOU would have played HIS hand differently (more aggressively). Since HE didn't, you think you've got the best hand. When you're wrong, you feel like HE stole the pot from YOU. That's aggrivating.

On a lower level, you know you saved money because HE was a pussy. That's good, but it's not good enough to offset the suck you feel from having the pot stolen.

Also, there's the feeling that if he had played his hand "right" (more like you), you would have been able to put him on a hand that beats yours, and you would have folded. This is also better, mentally, because your laydown makes you feel good about making a good laydown against a stronger hand. You didn't lose, you got away from it (if it had happened). The problem here is that you're kind of wishing that the opponent played "better", which is a huge no-no, and we all know that.

I've had a lot of struggle with this, but am getting past it. I've never said anything online in chat in times like this, but I've groaned or shouted out loud (at first), slowly working towards "Hey, thanks for saving me those bets" out loud now, realizing I played a hand well and lost to a passive player.

[34TheTruth34]

[lefty rosen]

But for the avg gambler it's the only beatable game in town. Try beating the number in one of the major sports, horse racing or black jack. When a Jack 2 clown drawsout that's your bread and butter because if people only called raises the way they should this game would be the slots without the large payoff.

[tiltboy]

I've got one for you. Click here. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=367345&amp;Main=366187#Post36 7323)

[Joe Tall]

You've got problems with tilt.

Peace,
JT