Extremely Passive Play

[spamuell]

I am in the SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif8/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Six callers to me(very loose passive table /images/graemlins/laugh.gif), I complete and BB checks. 8 see a flop of

A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet out and everyone calls. I might c/r here sometimes if I think a late position player will bet so I can make it two SBs to any potential flush callers, but I just tried that and on a passive table like this, nobody bites. Turn is 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (damn).

With this many callers, do I assume that someone must have been drawing to a flush (they love their suited cards)? I didn't, I bet out and one person folded. River was 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Here I turned into a 12 year old school girl and checked, I couldn't believe I still had the best hand with this many players. Someone bet and I called, and mucked to his 10, 6 offsuit rivered straight /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Anyway, my question is, with this many callers, do I assume that someone must be on a flush draw and check, or did I play it right by betting for info? Of course usually I would bet for info but on a table as passive as this, I can see (and have seen) players just calling on the turn and even the river with the nut flush, so betting might be pointless. Of course I should still bet the turn anyway to protect against something like the blank 5c. What about the river?

Comments Appreciated.

[GuyOnTilt]

If your table is loose/passive, like you describe, then you can't be sure that onbody will bet out on the flop, so betting is fine. If there's some aggressive players to your right who bet draws or 2nd pairs if checked to, then you should go for a C/R.

On the turn, you have NO REASON to believe you're behind. Just because it's a multiway pot doesn't mean somebody was on a flush draw. At loose/passive tables you will see all sorts of weird hands call on the flop. You MUST BET.

On the river, you still should've bet for value. Nobody showed any strength on the flop or turn, and you have absolutely no reason to believe you're behind here. Next time, bet out! You're missing bets if you're always this passive on the river. I don't see how you could be afraid of that river card after this action.

[Nottom]

I'm generally not putting anybody on a flush until I get raised or at least see some cold-calling on the flop. I would have also bet the river and called a raise here. Straight draws would have been of the runner-runner gutshot variety, and most of the time your 2-pair should be good.

[Festus22]

With a 3-flush board and you have none of that suit, there is a 5% chance per opponent that they have a flush as a general rule of thumb.

It's kind of the same thing as dealing out 6 cards (your two and 4 on the board) and there's 3 of the same suit. What's the odds of you drawing 2 consecutive cards of the 3-suit? It's (10/46)*(9/45) = 4.3%. As you can see, making a flush is not as routine as you might believe.

[Jezebel]

OK, This is almost an identical example that HEFAP gives for checking the turn with outs. The concept is that if you had a hand that has little chance of improvement (ie, an overpair) you bet out and fold to any raise, since this is as scary a board to your opponents as it is to you.

Our hero has two pair and has outs to improve to a boat. By betting on the turn, if he is raised he is most likely behind and will have to pay two or more bets to see the river. S&M advise check/calling this turn and becoming aggressive if you fill up and folding if a fourth club hits and there is any action and just calling if you don't improve. Thoughts?