33 from EMP...Need Feedback

[chesspain]

Tight-Aggressive, 1/2 Party table. In fact, this took place minutes before the hand I discussed in yesterday's link titled "...I flopped a straight..."

I am dealt 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif in EMP

UTG 1&2 both fold, I seriously consider mucking, but I call, assuming that I will have the implied odds if at least three others see the flop...folded to the CO+1 who calls, folded to the BB who checks. Three see the flop (aarrgghh!).

2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB bets, I raise, CO+1 folds, BB reraises...at this point, I have the suspicion that BB is trying to push me off of this hand, although with his PF check-limp he could have anything...I reraise with my ten outs, he calls...

(2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif) K /images/graemlins/club.gif

He bets, I call...

(2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif) A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

He checks, I bet, he calls...

Of course, my straight is good to his J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif


Reading frequent posts by GuyonTilt, Majorkong, and Dynasty has prodded me into playing more aggressively, especially on tight tables. However...

-Do any of you think I played this foolishly after I was already in for the flop?

-If I had not hit any of my outs, would my 33 still have been worth either a call or a bet on the river?

[Jezebel]

Why are you calling 33 from EP at a tight aggresive table?

Why are you sitting at a tight aggressive table?

[Aces McGee]

I am just as guilty of this as anybody, but I think you'll get a lot of people telling you that you can't open-limp in EMP with a pair of threes at a tight-aggressive table.

I also wouldn't have capped the flop.

Aces McGee

[Aces McGee]

Also

If I'm you and my straight doesn't come in, I'd probably check behind on the river.

Aces McGee

[Barry]

Tight-Aggressive 1/2 Party Table

Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

If it did indeed play that way, then 33 is a PF fold from that position (By your description you're still EP). There are too many people behind you left to act. However if it is a typical loose passive Party game, limping is OK.

On the flop, I might want to keep the CO in here, so I would tend to just call, but raising isn't too bad either. When you are 3-bet here, I don't find any +EV in 4-betting.

Turn and river is routine.

If you didn't hit and if the opponent is typical, on the river, folding if he bet and checking if he didn't would be my play.

[Louie Landale]

Small pairs are the pits in tight aggressive games. Nothing quite taking a pair of 3s for 2 bets against 2 or 3 opponents. You need closer to 5 opponents on average with no raise to make them close to profitable.

If he's got anything you do not have 10 outs, but I guess that doesn't matter.

Anyway, if he IS trying to push you off your "hand", such as it is, you have no particular reason to want him to stop. You might as well call him down. The only reason to cap the flop is to be sure that he DOES stop "bluffing" you; but that conflicts with your statement as to whether you should pay it off if you miss: if you anticipate wondering of you should pay it off then you are better off just calling, and thus encouraging him to bluff even more.

You can play this assertively against players playing even MORE assertively, apparently like the BB with his KJ.

- Louie

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Part of the decision process I use for whether or not I'll play small pairs in EP is how frequently I think it will come back to me for 2 more bets. If a lot of hands are getting 3-bet preflop, I'd toss 33 in EP (and probably start looking for a table change).

If I had not hit any of my outs, would my 33 still have been worth either a call or a bet on the river?

He bet into you when the K fell on the turn even though you capped the flop. If you don't make your hand on the river, I'd check behind, though I doubt he'd check if the A doesn't fall.

Too bad the river was an A and not a 6.

[Nottom]

After the first 2 players muck, i think your baby pair needs to follow their lead, just not enough people left to guarantee the odds you need to see a flop, and if any of the players are aggressive they will see you limp as a sign of weakness and raise you (I know I would have popped you with most hands I would play here if I were the CO)

After the flop I think you played it fine.

[GuyOnTilt]

Like others have said, limping in after 2 folds with 33 at a table you describe as "tight" and "aggressive" isn't a good idea. You should've gone with your female intuition and mucked it.

On the flop, I like your raise, but if you think you're being "pushed" off a hand, you're best to just call down. Reraising him is likely to push him off of his bluff, if he is bluffing. So you gain more when you're right, and lose less when you're wrong. When you say, "I reraise with my ten outs," what do you mean? Your raise has no value if you're behind, so your outs alone shouldn't be enough to cap.

[chesspain]

On the flop, I believed I was ahead, since I had a suspicion he was betting overcards. However, in the event I was up against a pocket or made pair, I assumed that all of my outs to the straight or trip 3's would be good.

P.S. You're only allowed to refer to my female intuition when I play weak-tight. Otherwise, my wife gets upset. Come to think of it, she gets upset anyway whenever I equate weak play with being female.

[GuyOnTilt]

If you had the suspicion he was betting overcards, I think just calling his 3-bet would've been better. If he'll continue to push them all the way, you don't mind a bit. As I said, you win more when you're right, and less when you're wrong.

PS. I use the term "female intuition" when referring to any gut instinct, whether it be from man or woman. I am in no way suggesting that the terms "female" and "weakness" are related. Sorry to upset the bos...er, I mean wife.

[Joe Tall]

If this is truely a tight-aggressive table you should muck 33. Other than that I think you played the rest of the hand well.

Peace,
JT