Quick questions from a complete novice

[ZeeJustin]

Hi, I've never played stud before (I'm a hold'em player), but im starting to mess around w/ the game.

In a loose 3/6 (party) game w/ .50 antes, what's a good approximate 4th street seen % to aim for?

On 4th street why do I have an option of how much to bet (bet $3, or bet $6 D whatever that means)?

What's the best stud book out there?

I've yet to see someone fold an ace on 3rd street (small sample size, and bad opponents). Am I wrong to be folding around 50% of my aces? (when undercards are complete stains)

Thanks in advance!

[crockpot]

[ QUOTE ]
In a loose 3/6 (party) game w/ .50 antes, what's a good approximate 4th street seen % to aim for?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this depends on how passive the game is. in good position for only the bring-in, i would play near 25%. for a raise, more like 10-15%.

[ QUOTE ]
On 4th street why do I have an option of how much to bet (bet $3, or bet $6 D whatever that means)?

[/ QUOTE ]

there's a rule that if someone makes an open pair on 4th, anyone can bet $6 instead of $3, or raise a $3 bet to $9. why anyone with an open pair needs an additional advantage is beyond me.

[ QUOTE ]
What's the best stud book out there?

[/ QUOTE ]

7-stud for advanced players. roy west's book and the stud section in super/system are good for beginners.

[ QUOTE ]
I've yet to see someone fold an ace on 3rd street (small sample size, and bad opponents). Am I wrong to be folding around 50% of my aces? (when undercards are complete stains)

[/ QUOTE ]

no. in fact, you should probably be folding more than that in a loose game. if an ace is my doorcard, i would only be playing trip aces, a pair of aces, a wired pair, a three-flush, or maybe two buried face cards. even a hand like (JT)A, though probably worth playing for the bring-in, is not that good in multiway pots. having a two card flush makes these hands slightly better, although it is more useful if the two-flush is buried so your flush will be more hidden if you make it.

hope you come back with some success stories.

[Andy B]

I don't play on-line, so I don't know my own fourth-street percentage. I think it's dangerous to aim for some pre-determined percentage, anyway. A significant factor is what you mean by "loose." If it's loose-aggressive, you should be playing many few hands than if it's loose-passive. When someone makes it a full bet on third street, some hands become less playable. If you are up against players who will pay you off the whole way when you hit your door card, you should limp in with almost any live pair. This is particularly true in games where you can frequently see fifth and even sixth street for $1. I would guess that I play about 25% of my hands in my local $3/6 game. You might want to play a little tighter than that until you gain some experience.

The fourth-street rule says that if a player has an open pair, any player may make a bet or raise at either the minimum or the maximum level. Once a maximum bet or raise has been made, however, all subsequent raises must be of the maximum amount. I don't understand the logic, either.

Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players (21st Century Edition) by Sklansky, Malmuth, and Zee has about everything you'll ever need. You're playing a game with a significant ante, so "real stud" considerations apply. The "loose games" section is particularly good for this kind of game. They spend a lot of time talking about ante-stealing, which isn't a big factor in a $3/6 game, but the rest of the book is relevant. I've never read West, but the stud section in Super/System is good. I still haven't managed to wade through Othmer.

"Stains." I like that. If you have an Ace and two unrelated cards, you have junk, and should treat it as such. If you have the opportunity to steal the antes with (96)A, by all means do so, but these opportunities will be few and far between.

[SittingBull]

on an opened 4th Str. Pr. is very important for someone who started out with a 3-flush but does not want to invest the Max with his 3-flush and Pr. However,he certainly would play for the Min.
Hence,if he is consistent in his 4th Str. betting pattern,his opponents don't know if he has a set or some other hand. Therefore,if he consistently bets the Min,even with a set on 4th,his opponents would probably not be aggressive against him on 4th when he connnects with an opened Pr.when he doesn't have a set.

HappyPoering, /images/graemlins/smile.gif
SittingBull

[SittingBull]

Konstantin Othmer for your game type.
Before investing money in the advanced stud book,have about 1000 Hrs. of playing time under your belt. Study both West and Othmer for a few months.
The advanced book assumes a strong fundamental knowledge of stud. It is NOT geared for the beginners.
What's rather interesting,however,is that the Hold'em book for advanced players is relevant for BOTH beginners AND experienced players alike.
HappyPokering, /images/graemlins/smile.gif
SittingBull
BTW, keep us intuned on how UR doing! /images/graemlins/diamond.gif And I hope that U frequently have the opportunity to ask your opponents the following question: How do U like your NEW BOSS??

[Andy B]

Playing 1000 hours before reading 7CS4AP is ridiculous. Better he should read 7CS4AP before taking a single hand.

[Graham]

With Andy here. Get 7CSFAP ASAP.It was the first poker book I got hold of (the old edition - new one's much better, with more stuff) and it got me off winning straight away.

You don't need to be vastly experienced at poker to read 7CSFAP; just need to be reasonably intelligent and apply yourself to thinking a wee bit about what you're reading.

G

[SittingBull]

doesn't??
Hmm
Just wondering,
SittingBull

[Howard Burroughs]

Sitting Bull,

The new one has 326 pages compared to the old one's 220!


Plus the new one has an updated picture of Ray Zee. He's smiling in the new picture. Must of just got done counting his money.


I'm kind of shocked a player of your magnitude, Sitting Bull does not have the 21st Century green book. Have you been over tipping the cocktail waitress' again Bull?
:-)


The new book has been substantially expanded including an extensive section on loose games. Stop giving all your money away to the cocktail waitress and order a copy ASAP Bull.


Best of Luck

Howard

[Graham]

Ya, definitely worth it to get the new pic of Zee-man. I don't think they had colour film back when they took the first one and Ray didn't look too pleased about it. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Get the book ASAP, Larry. I actually bought the new as well - so have both editions; which gives me the right to make fun of Ray's pic.

Worth the price to upgrade my collection and a serious omission from your collection, Larry. Aside from - or along with - TOP, it's got to be the best poker book ever written.

G

[SittingBull]

However,I'm FAR from being any TOP player in my games(low-limit stud,micro-limit Hold'em). The only reason I'm a consistent winner is that my opponents make MANY MORE ERRORS than I do in these games.
I've heard the compliments before--"He'll a hell of a stud player!"--Etc..
The FACT is that I have a MORE realistic picture of my skills than my opponents' distorted opinion of me.
The main reason i haven't bought a copy of the LATEST Eds.
of Hold'em and Stud is that I am still studying the OLDER versions.
At the present time,i have enough food for thought.
Do the pages still crumple from the binders? I had to record the OLD hold'em and stud books because the pages were flying all over the place--LOL!
I've been playing in cyberspace for the last 4 1/2 months .
My micro-limit hold'em is producing more funds than my 1/5 stud B&M casino. I guess the players at Harrah's must think I'm dead--LOL!
Hence,I no longer tip anyone! That's great1 LOL!
Remember,if one lets ALL the books do his thinking for him,he will do very little thinking on his own.
So , buying and trying to study a lot of books stifles one's thinking.
HappyPokering, /images/graemlins/smile.gif
SittingBull

[Andy B]

Larry, you're costing yourself money by not investing in the 21st century editions of both 7CS4AP and HP4AP. You're not allowed to dispense any more advice about books. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[eugeneel]

Just to let you know you should get your rake money in a day or 2, sorry it's a bit late this month.

-Eugene

[huzitup2]

I'll answer your last question (since it involves the least amount of typing /images/graemlins/crazy.gif).

If you holecards are "complete stains" (great expression, btw) you should probably be folding in the neighborhood of NINETY percent of your Aces - maybe even more.

There isn't alot of "ante stealing" at this limit, and playing "Ace/rag/rag" strictly on its merits is going to wind up a very expensive habit.

Best wishes,

- H