Eating the Income

[adios]

The following is a copy of a post on a Yahoo stock message board that I thought was sort of interesting.

There is a strong correlation between people's disposable incomes and their approvals for the government...

one of the main factors justifying our love/hate?

Taxes:

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest expense (tax on the money)
Inventory tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax Local
Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone State and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer registration tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

COMMENTS: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago and our nation was the most prosperous in the world, had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

What the hell happened?

Certainly at leadt some of these taxes are necessary due to the changed demographics of US society.

[Ray Zee]

what has happened is that most people want the govt to take care of them in all situations. but still dont want govt. intrustion in their lives funny. the days of hardiness are gone where people actually fend for themselves, not survival i mean just ordinary day to day living problems. why even here in montana people call the sheriff if a bear walks thru their yard. like the sheriff should or could do something about it. they insure everything they own even when they buy a new radio they pay half the cost of it again for a policy to insure it if it breaks. the spirit of strong americans is long gone. i have to go now and wash my car because it isnt perfectly pretty.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
what has happened is that most people want the govt to take care of them in all situations. but still dont want govt. intrustion in their lives funny. the days of hardiness are gone where people actually fend for themselves, not survival i mean just ordinary day to day living problems. why even here in montana people call the sheriff if a bear walks thru their yard. like the sheriff should or could do something about it. they insure everything they own even when they buy a new radio they pay half the cost of it again for a policy to insure it if it breaks. the spirit of strong americans is long gone. i have to go now and wash my car because it isnt perfectly pretty.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that calling the Sheriff because a bear walks through your yard won't solve anything, it is hardly an "ordinary day to day living problem" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ray Zee]

it is an ordinary day living thing. its when the stupid moose chases you up the tree that you start to get mad at the wildlife. right now the wild turkeys just chased my cat out of the back yard.

[Boris]

Sounds like its time for an early Thanksgiving, or have you gone vegan?

[Chris Alger]

They didn't have court fines 100 years ago? No toll roads or bridges either? How could anyone think such a thing?

Contrary to popular belief, Americans are not taxed more than citizens of other developed countries and their tax burden, as a percentage of GDP, has not significantly risen during the last four decades, having remained between 18-20%.

Maybe there's a correlation between tax "hatred" and ignorance, similar to the customary complaints about foreign aid and welfare spending, also constantly overestimated according to opinion polls.

[Ray Zee]

no chris we arent taxed more than most other countries. but we send it away or waste it rather than spending it on our infrastructure. and who cares about% of gdp. we care about % of our total income that is taken away.

[MMMMMM]

"It would be thought a hard Government that should tax its people one-tenth Part of their Time, to be employed in its Service." -- Poor Richard Improved, 1758, by Benjamin Franklin



How times have changed. It seems that now the measure of whether our taxes are too high is whether they are higher than those of other developed countries /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


Also, since the last four decades have not seen significant overall tax increases, it therefore follows that taxes are at "normal" levels /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


Complaints over foreign aid and welfare spending are likely to be due more to "overestimation" than to our actually spending too much on those things /images/graemlins/confused.gif


Government, apart from the welcome and necessary good it may (hopefully) do in protecting our rights and providing for the common defense, is at once the least effective and most expensive means of accomplishing everything else under the sun. This is borne out by experience, but fools insist on proving it anew at every chance they get.

Whether you walk a circuitous route, or a more circuitous route, you will still arrive later than if you walk a direct route. Government is the "circuitous route"; more government, and more powers of government, are the "more circuitous route." Simplicity, self-reliance, and the economy of the universe are the direct route.


Nothing less than woodpeckers drilling on the sides of their heads, however, is likely to penetrate the thought processes of the collectivists /images/graemlins/cool.gif


All of the above is posted for reflection rather than debate, as it merely expresses my personal observations and opinions /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cyrus]

"It would be thought a hard Government that should tax its people one-tenth Part of their Time, to be employed in its Service." -- Poor Richard Improved, 1758, by Benjamin Franklin."

Noble and just sentiments but fit for another age, when Americans did not number in the hundreds of millions and "infrastructure" was having an outhouse at all. Sheer numbers dictate an altogether bigger and different state (not necessarily better in every aspect) which in turn entails heavier contributions from its citizens.

"Now the measure of whether our taxes are too high is whether they are higher than those of other developed countries."

Countries that belong to roughly the same category in socio-economics, such as western democracies, are expected to converge in their fiscal policies as well, among other things. This should be obvious.

Therefore, a comparison of the various economic measures (eg taxes, eg disparity between lowest and highest incomes, etc) between two western democracies is indeed a valid and most educational exercise. Why the surprise ?

"Also, since the last four decades have not seen significant overall tax increases, it therefore follows that taxes are at "normal" levels."

This is only true if one accepts that four decages ago, as well, taxation in the United States was at "normal levels", whatever the hell you mean by that. Four decades ago we were smack in the middle of the JFK/LBJ presidencies, way before a Republican President froze wages and prices in order to fight inflation (!) and when American taxation was the lowest almost everywhere among western democracies.

And don't get me started on the ridiculous gasoline excise tax in the US!

[MMMMMM]

..."Sheer numbers dictate an altogether bigger and different state (not necessarily better in every aspect) which in turn entails heavier contributions from its citizens."

Didn't I say times have changed??? I think that was my first sentence;-) Not necessarily requiring this much bigger a government though, and not necessarily so much on the federal level, either. Also you have just made an argument against having such a high rate of immigration.

Countries that belong to roughly the same category in socio-economics, such as western democracies, are expected to converge in their fiscal policies as well, among other things. This should be obvious.

Therefore, a comparison of the various economic measures (eg taxes, eg disparity between lowest and highest incomes, etc) between two western democracies is indeed a valid and most educational exercise. Why the surprise?"

The collectivist economic policies of much of Europe are a poor and inefficient model, and expecting the USA to converge with such examples rather than lead the way based on its own vision is a recipe for universal mediocrity. And, as Churchill said: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of communism is the equal sharing of miseries." The statement may be toned down somewhat for socialism, but the gist remains.

"Also, since the last four decades have not seen significant overall tax increases, it therefore follows that taxes are at "normal" levels."
"This is only true if one accepts that four decages ago, as well, taxation in the United States was at "normal levels", whatever the hell you mean by that."

My point exactly, didn't I put a /images/graemlins/tongue.gif or a /images/graemlins/confused.gif after the sentence? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[brad]

you might be right, chris, but imho i see the main shift as away from personal responsibility to , well, communism.

one instance? insurance. (of which there was really none in 1780, since ive read many of US founding fathers lost everything when say, thier homes were shelled by brithish or whatever or burned.).

[adios]

insurance == communism? I don't think that's the right take. I think insurance for the most part is a consequence of decreasing marginal utility for the risk averse which broadly include middle and upper income households.

[brad]

no i just mean insurance as an instance of the general shift of americans to have everything done for them, not accept responsibility, etc.

[adios]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Perhaps some of the risk aversion is irrational but for the most part it isn't. The degree of scamming in the insurance industry is another topic for another thread perhaps.

[brad]

well when u buy an electronic thing at best buy or whatever do u get that ripoff insurance?

p.s. prog. income tax plank of communist manifesto

[adios]

I edited my post during your reply. My edit acknowledged that some of the risk aversion is irrational. To answer your question about Best Buy, it depends mostly no.

[brad]

well think about future, u might have 2 consent 2 monitoring 4 home insurance (cameras).

dont laugh its already been speculatively floated.

u see my point. method of control.

as usual, my points are out there /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[adios]

"well think about future, u might have 2 consent 2 monitoring 4 home insurance (cameras)."

It'll be good for the camera business.

"dont laugh its already been speculatively floated."

By whom?

[brad]

i dont have my fingertips on everything.

but youre no doubt aware of the implantable microchip thing, and in japan theres a move for all children to be microchipped after that child abduction over there or something. i can see how all children could be required to be chipped for insurance reasons.

if youve seen the movie gattica, the reason guy couldnt go to school was for insurance reasons.

well u get my drift.