2 similar blind hands

I had these two hands in a row at a loose low-limit table. They both had similar problems.


#1. I'm in the BB with TT, there are three callers. I don't raise because there is no chance to get any of these players out and TT doesn't seem that strong to me against three callers.


Flop is Jh8cQd. I bet, UTG raises. All fold to me and I don't know what to do. I only have six outs and any J or Q beats me. He might be rasing a draw (AK, KT etc). I decide to call, but I'm not happy about my decision.


Turn is a 7h. I check, he bets, The pot is offering me even worse odds now, so I fold. He rubs it in by showing me Ah2h.


#2, the very next hand, I'm in the SB with JJ, which I raise. BB and MP call.


Flop is Ks5dTh. I bet, BB (the same guy that bluffed me out in the last hand) raises, MP cold calls, I call.


Turn is 9h, I check BB bets, MP calls. Same basic situation as the previous hand: I have a reasonable pocket pair, facing overcards and someone raising. Both hands have a gut shot straight draw. The pot is offering better odds here - almost 9:1 - but not good enough to chase the draw, so I fold.


I can't remember the river, but it wouldn't have helped me. UTG won with trip Ts.


Any comments are appreciated, but I am mostly concerned about two things: If I bet out into overcards on the flop and get raised, am I wrong to automatically call the raise? How much weight should I give to the gut shot draw when I have a pair that is probably beaten.


Thanks.

First hand:


I like the way you played it. If it's a loose game and it's hard to put the callers on a hand - especially when a big draw comes on the flop like that where anyone holding 10/9 just flopped the nuts - then I think you did the right thing by folding. At least at this point you have gained some information on how this opponent will play if he's got a runner/runner for a nut flush.


The second hand is a little tricky. Going into the river you have 6 outs to make a set or to hit your gutshot. With 6 outs you need about 7 BB's in the pot to call and I think you have this. If this was me I would have called the turn to see the river and folded to any bet there. Your J's still could have been the best hand and I think that laying down at this point is a mistake.


Just me though - I'm sure others will have some different opinions.


It's important to note that you didn't let the previous hand with BB put you on tilt - especially after he bet into to you on the very next hand.

The first hand is an easy check and fold situation.


The second hand merits a bet because no one can call with overcards and it is very hard for them to stay in against someone who raised out of the SB w/out a K, but once it is raised and then COLD CALLED you should be done with the hand.


If you really feel the need to play these hands you should checkraise the last guy to act on the flop and bet out the turn and then abandon the hand if raised.


Regards,


Paul Talbot

TT: One reason NOT to raise pre-flop with TT is so you can get away from the hand cheap if you get a bad flop. Even though you flopped a gut draw you still got a bad flop with those two over-cards. A QJ flop is a pretty BAD flop since it will hit so many pre-flop callers. Betting out is obscene unless you can SERIOUSLY outplay your opponents after the flop, or if your bet itself will cause the opponents to play very predictably thereafter. With that small a pot I'd probably check-fold, unless I really thought about those 6 non-nut outs.


Curious this player made a move on you like that. I suspect you are giving off "I'm paranoid" tells.


JJ looks like a tough fold, although with the caller you are likely beat. The raiser put a move on you last hand and MAY be doing the same, who knows. But I doubt it since you raised this time but Didn't last time indicating a stronger hand; and few put moves on players known to hold a premium hand.


I will say, however, that if you are going to be tempted to call someone down with your vulnerable pair, you are better off NOT betting out in the first place. Why bet and discourage the bluff (raise) you intend to call anyway? If you check you are encouraging the bet you intend to call, and that's good poker.


- Louie

"Curious this player made a move on you like that. I suspect you are giving off "I'm paranoid" tells."


I think he just liked winning with a bluff more than getting laid. I didn't get the feeling he was going out of his way to push me around in particular. But I'm curious what you mean by "I'm paranoid tells." Examples?

Its hard to quanitify "paranoid" but it may look like [] Hesitating for a moment [] unusually quick betting action [] facial cringe etc. I know I can often smell "fear" and will make moves as often as I can when I do.


Consider this situation: you are told you will be presented with two buttons and you must press one of them. One of them is "correct" and the other "incorrect". You will have 5 seconds to choose. You will be in this situation twice. When you are presented with the buttons the first time you are told you will get a choclate bar if you choose correctly. Imagine yourself choosing and pushing. The second time you are told you will get a 480 volt jolt if you choose incorrectly. NOW imagine yourself choosing and pushing. Don't you think someone observing and looking will be able to tell which situation you were in, just by virtue of your "paranoid" tells in the second situation?


Well, that's similar to the difference between betting top two pair and betting an underpair.


- Louie