Another No Limit Drawing Question

[Scottnyce]

Well no so much a drawing hand.....but tell me how you would play this....

You are in BB ($54) 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

4 limpers.

Flop comes

Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG raises all in $38

everyone folds to you....

what do you do?

[scrub]

Easy muck. What are you beating that should have pushed? People at tables that small will call you down with a tiny flush--don't give them the same courtesy.

scrub

[Scottnyce]

Correction....Sorry

You are in LP (you post after just joining)

SB raises all in....after the flop


I couldn't remember why he was acting first....(because i had just joined...lol)

[Scottnyce]

Thanks Scrub, I did fold, just wanted to make sure it was that easy of a lay down.

[crockpot]

what really makes this an easy laydown is that if your opponent does not have a flush, he will have a set or the ace of spades, giving him a 30% or more chance of beating you. here you are either a massive underdog or a relatively small favorite, so a fold is definitely in orer.

[limon]

rarely will a player with a mde flush push all in here. they would get sneaky with it. your against an As, set, or 2 pair. without some serious player history easy call on all 3.

[The Gift Of Gab]

You don't say how big the pot was before SB shoved in, but from the stack sizes I assume it was much less than 38 bucks. In my experience the massive overbet means he is very likely to have a hand that has outs against a flush but doesn't want to be called. I would call all but the most timid or straightforward players here.

[C M Burns]

I don't think it's that easy a fold. The only reason to go all in here is if he is afraid of another flush card hitting. so he probably has either high pair a big pair or a small flush, or a bluff is not imposible. It is probably more likley that you have him beat. So i'd say going either way is fine. If you are one to take risks with a small edge then you could call, but folding is probably better if you think you will have better spots, plus you know nothing about the player yet.

[1800GAMBLER]

I'm in with the vote of easy call.

[Legend27]

Easy call. If you fold this you shouldn't be playing No Limit.

[scrub]

I'm going to go ahead here and speculate that the rush of "easy call" replies came from players with profiles similar to limon, whose posts (which I love) usually reflect the best way to play in a much larger live game with rational opponents.

As someone who has spent a lot of hours playing at the tables in question (a tiny UB NL game), I can tell you that players don't play in ways that make sense. But they do follow some patterns. A lot of players at such tables will push a 3-10 high flopped flush into a tiny pot hoping to "protect their hand." Don't ask me why. Sure, sometimes a set, two pair, or the naked Ace /images/graemlins/spade.gif is doing the pushing. But often you're looking at a slightly higher flush.

If you've never played at these tables, you can't fathom how poorly the average player plays. If you plan on spending another few hundred hands at the table, you will likely be presented with a number of opportunities to get your stack in as a MUCH bigger favorite. Why get your money in a situation where you're either a moderate favorite or massive dog?

scrub

[1800GAMBLER]

K,x Q,x 7,x were x is a spade.
AK
QK
K7
Q7
77
QQ
KK

X,x were Xs are spades.

That's a lot of combination math. Which i'm not going to do since it shows the amount of hands which are all worth making a bet like this here. Even if the player doesn't think and just pushes in with the flush. That would apply to lower sakes.

In your case, at higher stakes we could even discount a percentage off him having the flush due to the way he played it. In this case we'll give him the idiot benefit and say we can't.

If you are bore while reading this run the combinations of each and then the EV.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

what was the BB? it makes a LITTLE bit of difference...

I would probably call him, figuring him to be on a draw, and me to be the favorite. The chance he flopped a bigger flush is fairly small.

al

[nicky g]

You can't really answer this without knowing something about the game and/or opponent. If I knew nothing about him and I was adequately bankrolled for the game, I'd lean towards calling. In the small UB games I'd almost definitely call given the stupid things you see people do there, but you seem to have more experience of them than I do so you probably know better.

[Zag]

K,x Q,x 7,x were x is a spade.
AK
QK
K7
Q7
77
QQ
KK

Eliminate these, which will raise preflop: AK, QQ, KK
Eliminate these, which will fold preflop: K7, Q7, many of K,x Q,x 7,x were x is a spade.
Eliminate all the K,x Q,x 7,x were x is a spade if the x is not, specifically, Js or As, because I don't think that they would play this way.

And you are left with KQ, 77 and some of K,x Q,x 7,x were x is Js or As.

Add these which have our hero beat and would likely play this way.
5s6s
6s8s
8s9s
9sTs

And the call doesn't look so clear.

The question is, why did the hero call preflop with 3s4s?

[Scottnyce]

The hero had just say down at the table and posted.

Blinds where 1-1

[tewall]

I'm totally confused. When did the money get in? You bet on the flop, is that right? How much? How much was in the pot when you bet? How much did the guy who raised you raise? Was he just raising you, or were there others he was raising?

Generally speaking, people will go all-in with just one spade on a draw, especially if they have something else to go with it (like another draw or a pair), so with an actual made flush you can call. Having a made flush come up against another made flush doesn't happen very often, so I'd bet against my opponent not having it unless I knew something about him. Besides, maybe he'll have a smaller flush. /images/graemlins/smile.gif