JJ SB smoothcall?

[1800GAMBLER]

8/16 Pacific Poker, 7 handed, loose-passive table apart from one LAP (BB)

I'm in the SB with JJ and the LAP is in the BB.

2 limpers, i raise, BB reraises (last time he capped it with 55), limpers call and i cap. 4 to the flop:


Flop: J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I can bet out knowning the BB will reraise, so making the limpers charge if they have somewhat of a straight draw.

Or check-raise and trap them all.

I went for the checkraise.

BB bet, both call, one of them is a CS the other is pretty loose. Now, i can either checkraise and have them all call now, or smoothcall and checkraise the turn.

Thoughts?

[1800GAMBLER]

I'm certain the BB will bet the turn and certain at least one of the other 2 will call.

[rigoletto]

I'm certain the BB will bet the turn and certain at least one of the other 2 will call.

In that case the smooth call/turn c/r is a no brainer.

I think the question is if BB would 3-bet a flop checkraise and would the others then call?

[Buckshot]

If the BB is as aggressive as you say why not put as many bets in as you can? That means 3-betting the flop and leading the turn and hope you get raised. I find in these situations it's better to bet and let the aggressive player help you.

~stephen

[1800GAMBLER]

If i bet out on the flop and the BB raised the others wouldn't have been there.

[1800GAMBLER]

The turn was 8x

I checked, BB bets, limpers called, i raised, limpers called.

River was the ever so unwanted:

Qx

I bet, BB raised, limper 3 bet, i fold. BB caps.

BB: AKo

[Eihli]

Is this hand one of those that Andy Morton was talking about, you are losing money even when the extra players call incorectly? I've read his post a few times and I still don't understand the math, but if you had pushed out the other 2 callers, the BB would have had worse odds to hit his gutshot and you would be making more money than if the other 2 stayed.

Is this hand an example of "schooling" or do I understand the concept worse than I think?

[CrackerZack]

Its a drawish board, so I would tend to C/R now and lead at the turn. I would've seriously considered betting out, but your hand has more outs than an open-ender so I like the C/R. I'd do it on the flop though and lead at the turn. If you're lucky the BB will raise you and the real draws will really have to pay.

[Gabe]

J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

You can wait untill the turn.

J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Check raise flop.

Not because cards can come to beat you, but because cards can come that will scare your opponents from betting or calling! If a Q cames and someone likes it, you don't.

[squiffy]

Wow, how did you know to drop JJJ? Couldn't BB have had a set of 10s or two pair JT, of course JT much less likely because you have JJ and one J on board.

I guess with three other opponents calling and raising you had to put at least one of them on AK.

But still a gutsy fold.

[Coilean]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this hand one of those that Andy Morton was talking about, you are losing money even when the extra players call incorectly?

[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you aren't serious. Hero flopped the stone nuts, with a pretty large redraw in case anyone catches him on the turn with a straight, and you think he could possibly be losing more money than he is making on the flop calls? The horse race concept you are talking about only comes into play when you have a more vulnerable hand, like top pair top kicker, as well as many opponents drawing at you.

[Diplomat]

Or any nine.

-Diplomat

[MrGo]

Flop - If you feel the BB will bet here, check and call.

Turn - Same thing. If you're certain the BB will bet the turn, then checkraise. The other players will only have 1 bet to see the river (or so they think), instead of two (your bet, BB's raise), thus having it more likely they will call. Checkraise the turn, and bet out on the river.