Capping with JJ and many callers: was this play correct?

[Nate tha' Great]

Quite loose but somewhat passive 3/6 game at Party last night, living up to its stereotype after the site seemed to have been playing tighter over the past week or so.

I'm dealt pocket J's UTG and raise.

Three cold callers (this surprised me), then CO 3-bets. The SB mucks, but the BB calls the extra bets.

It got back around to me and I capped, figuring that:

1) I could have a stronger hand than the CO raiser, particularly if he has AK, and some of his outs are used up by the abundance of cold callers.

2) Even if I don't have the strongest hand, it's very likely that I have at *least* the second best hand, and I think most or all of the callers will come along for the ride.

3) Reraising now could save me a bet on a raggedy flop if he holds QQ or KK.

Thoughts, guys?

-Nate

[Mike Gallo]

Nate,


Everything sounded good until I read this.

3) Reraising now could save me a bet on a raggedy flop if he holds QQ or KK

Please elaborate your logic for this.

[Nate tha' Great]

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Please elaborate your logic for this.

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I'm not sure whether the logic is sound or not, but here goes:

If the flop came out rags, I'd want to bet it with my pocket J's.

If he held QQ (or, to a lesser extent KK), he might not be inclined to reraise me if I had shown the additional preflop strength with the cap, fearing a possible AA or KK.

In other words, I might make him less willing to extract value from a hand that he was ahead on, but that I'd find it very difficult to bail on because of the huge pot.

[Mike Gallo]

If the flop came out rags, I'd want to bet it with my pocket J's.

Why not check raise?

If he held QQ (or, to a lesser extent KK), he might not be inclined to reraise me if I had shown the additional preflop strength with the cap, fearing a possible AA or KK

I disagree here.

[Nate tha' Great]

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Why not check raise?

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To be honest, I hadn't really considered a flop check-raise, *except* if I had made my set. I don't want to make it any easier on the cold callers at that point because of the overcard possibilities, and I'd fear a 3-bet by a stronger hand from CO.

But I'm open to suggestion. Can you explain the thinking here?

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I disagree here.

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It's not a point that I'm wedded to.

[Ulysses]

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But I'm open to suggestion. Can you explain the thinking here?

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When checked to on the ragged flop after 3-betting pre-flop, CO could bet a lot of hands worse than yours. Smaller pocket pairs or AK are among the possibilities.

With 2 or 3 cold-callers in the middle, your checkraise has a chance of getting overcards and other potentially dangerous holdings to fold, increasing the chances that your Jacks will hold up. If CO actually has a bigger pair than you, well, good for him.

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I don't want to make it any easier on the cold callers at that point because of the overcard possibilities

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Facing them w/ one small bet in that pot is actually making it pretty easy for them - much easier than facing them w/ two bets and the threat of quite a few more.

As to the original question. JJ out of position in a multi-way pot, I don't really think it matters all that much whether you cap it or not.

[GuyOnTilt]

If the flop came rags, you'd DEFINITELY want to check-raise. You hand is much too vulnerable to overcards to be betting out. Your opponents would be correct in calling you with 2 overcards since the pot is so big. You must risk the chance of giving up the free card in order to maximize your chance at winning this pot. Check-raise all the way!

[JTG51]

I'd rather save that raise for a flop or turn check raise in an attempt to knock out some of those limpers that could have overcards.