Please help with kem cards project

I am writing a project on card manufacturing and the relationship between efficency costs and the dangers of erroneous manufacturing.


I am using poker as an example. I have heard that the Bellagio casino in Las Vegas uses red and green kem decks which could be recognized from the back, for its poker game, and some players figured out how to use this information to their advantage.


A couple of questions:


What form of poker is played at the Bellagio?

Are two decks used in this game? Isn't poker played with only one deck?

How would you take advantage of identifying a card from its back?

Might I suggest you go to Bellagio and play some poker. Or, play some poker anywhere.


1) You can find about any type of poker you want at Bellagio. Low limits to ridiculously high limits for Holdem, 7 Card Stud, Omaha, etc. I'm sure they sometimes spread games I've not heard of.


2) Umm, yes. Only one deck is ever in play at any time. Unless there's some wildly crazy game I hadn't heard of being spread at Bellagio.


3) If you can read the backs of cards, you will know what cards your opponent holds. This allows you to play perfectly. The thing that makes poker interesting/difficult/frustrating is that it is a game of imperfect information (unlike chess), so actions have to be based on more than the information openly displayed on the table.


Regards,


Troy

What form of poker is played at the Bellagio?


The most popular form of poker at the Bellagio is Texas hold'em. Of the 30 poker tables at the Bellagio, close to 2/3 of the tables will have Texas hold'em. Most of the rest of the tables will have 7-card Stud. A few tables will have Omaha 8 or better. And, some high stakes games will have mixed games, lowball draw, and high draw.


Are two decks used in this game? Isn't poker played with only one deck?


There are two decks physically present at the table. However, only one deck is used during play. For various reasons, the deck may be changed. In that case, the deck currently in play is removed from the playing surface and placed in a deck holder. The other deck, which had been in a deck holder, will be used in its place.


some players figured out how to use this information to their advantage


How would you take advantage of identifying a card from its back?


I have no doubt that your information is wrong. It is not possible to use the back of a card to your advantage unless the card has been illegally maked. Marking cards is extremely rare in public card rooms. Decks are changed and scrutinized regularly to prevent this. The color of the card is irrelevent.


If you could tell us how these players thought they used this to their advantage, we could probably tell you why they were wrong.

I think Kem had a manufacturing problem for a while and some of the cards, particularly aces, were warping. This did occur at the Bellagio and some other casinos. I don't remember the details, some others might. There was some stuff posted on internet forums about it. I think it was over a year ago. I have seen some Kem decks where high cards were prone to warping. They are still the best cards though. If you see a player with a warped card, you may be able to deduce things about his hand. In decks with warped cards, often more than one card is warped. So you won't be able to read an opponent's hand as you would if the cards were illegally marked, but you might pick up some information. In some cases, players will deliberately damage cards to mark them. This is a different question. Usually though, cards that are bent or warped are an accident or old or whatever.


The dangers of erroneous manufacturing are pretty boring in terms of cards, it's not like fire-suppression systems, airplanes, tires, or gas tanks where people die due to defective products. You get some grumpy players who might lose a hand or two or a few bets because of it. But a lot of times the players who notice it will ask for new decks. The players who don't notice usually don't win anyway. Of course, if the problem is bad enough customers would stop buying the product. Casinos are buying as many Kems as ever I would think.


And if I remember correctly the red and blue decks had more problems than the green and brown decks. Background info; Kem "setups" are two decks of different colors. Red goes with blue. Green goes with brown. My personal preference is green and brown, but this has nothing to do with anything substantive or superstitious either. I just prefer the colors to the off-red and off-blue.

"which could be recognized from the back"


I don't think that's the case. If it was, there wouldn't be any poker games.

It should be noted that at the Mirage and Bellagio, particularly in the summer, the cards get very warped. This is confined almost exclusively to face cards and aces. It is frequently possible to identify the Ace of Spades, which is usually by far the most warped card in the deck. The older the deck, the more severe the problem. The Mirage uses older decks in the bottom section, making the problem worse in the 6-12 games than the 10-20.


The point is....there IS information to be gained from imperfections in the cards. Not too long ago, I pointed out such a warped ace of spades to Larry in a Mirage 10-20 game. Several hands later, he then picked the card out of the muck and called his shot. He then asked for a setup. This is very common.

I wonder if this is due to storage of the cards in a hot area? Do you know when / if they have corrected this issue to date?

I wonder if this is due to storage of the cards in a hot area?


I spoke to the Mirage manager about this today. He says this occurs because Pokerbabe holds her cards to close to her chest. She has been warned about this many times.

It's common knowledge. Apparently there's nothing that can be done - its a problem with the Kem cards and not the storage.


Funny story - I'm at the Bellagio once and you draw for the button there when a game is starting up. I look for the warped cards and pick the one that appears to be most out of whack. Before I can even look at the card, the dealer tossed the button to me and said "bring em back".


I had the ace of spades, of course.

she don't wanna educate nobody. smart cookie that one...

Dynasty, you wrote" "I spoke to the Mirage manager about this today. He says this occurs because Pokerbabe holds her cards to close to her chest." Must have been Mark who made that comment, huh? Unless Paula has finally morphed into a man...... Well...today...my cards and chest were FRIGID. Couldn't even call a raise from that pathetic guy in the brown shirt with my 66. Yuck. I know you were horrified when I folded to his raise, but it's my experience that a bad player who raises usually has a high pocket pair, so I just let my hand slip into the muck. At least I got to see you winning - Big smile and thanks for the cute post. /images/smile.gif Babe

Well...today...my cards...were FRIGID


Wasn't that you 4-betting from the blinds?