My letter to Party re: rake/affiliate bonus and their reply

[Fraubump]

No suprise at their response.

Hi,

A number of poker players I know have been trying to
get me to join your site through their affiliate urls.
I have now looked at the affiliate deal and would
prefer to get that % of rake payment for myself.

I play a lot of poker: 2 or 3 tables at once 40+
hours a week. Here's my proposition: If you'll give
me the same deal as you give your affiliates for my
own play, I'll sign up and play my poker at your site.

In essence I want to join your affiliate program (and
I may get other players to sign up as well), but I
want credit for my own play: in essence signing up as
an affiliate through myself.

Looking forward to your reply,

Fraubump

Dear Fraubump,

We do not allow the affiliates to get credit on their own gameplay.
This is against our policies.

Best Regards
Affiliates Team

[Terry]

Not really very deep thinkers, are they?

If you feel like pursuing it, you might offer to play for a discount over the going affiliate rate, e.g., if affiliates get 30%, offer them your play for 20%.

Maybe, just maybe, you can get them to understand that they will EITHER get 10% more of your action than they would get if you signed up through an affilate OR they will get nothing.

[hehateme]

[ QUOTE ]
Not really very deep thinkers, are they?

If you feel like pursuing it, you might offer to play for a discount over the going affiliate rate, e.g., if affiliates get 30%, offer them your play for 20%.

Maybe, just maybe, you can get them to understand that they will EITHER get 10% more of your action than they would get if you signed up through an affilate OR they will get nothing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps, but maybe just maybe, they don't feel like devoting the resources to broker individual deals all day long with every new user who comes to the site.

[lorinda]

Thanks for getting back to us Frau.

Lori

[Adde]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but maybe just maybe, they don't feel like devoting the resources to broker individual deals all day long with every new user who comes to the site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said!

[Cyndie]

It all gets back to the law of unintended consequences...Party really thinks that players will just say no problem...we think you guys are so nice that we won't worry about a little thing like twenty percent of our rake. One player had a 20% share of almost five thousand in rake...nearly a thousand dollars back, if he qualified.

What is really incomprehensible to me is that the sites should realize that players will play more if they get a share...but it doesn't matter.

Then when the natural happens, they call it fraud, but the unfairness of the policy of the site is what encourages it. Go figure?

[Cyndie]

so just set up one policy that says we like you to play a lot of poker at our site...the more you play, the more incentive we will give you.

everyone treated the same...

[Adde]

The poker sites don't have an affiliate program with rake refunds to get YOU to play more, they have it to get OTHERS (new players) to play more.

People are so eager to complain about others cheating them (collusion, all-in cheats, etc), yet they try to find "creative angles" themselves.

[daryn]

can anyone not see why they wouldn't do this?

[Cyndie]

the very earliest affiliate programs did not have those restrictions.

[Terry]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe, they don't feel like devoting the resources to broker individual deals all day long with every new user who comes to the site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you're right. Business shouldn't be about providing service to individual customers. Why should they worry about making thousands of dollars from one person when they can make a few dollars each from thousands of people through automation. It's simply solid modern business practice.

It's just soo much more labor intensive to say "OK" than is to say "No."

[Cyndie]

OOOOOOOOh, customer service...what a concept. Does it get in the way of coffee breaks?

[Adde]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you're right. Business shouldn't be about providing service to individual customers. Why should they worry about making thousands of dollars from one person when they can make a few dollars each from thousands of people through automation. It's simply solid modern business practice. It's just soo much more labor intensive to say "OK" than is to say "No."

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't about labour. If they do it for one, they have to do it for all. If they do it for all, the affiliate program won't work (and will eventually turn into a reward program; UB Points, etc).

And to answer your next question: nothing wrong about a reward program (and I think Party is about to introduce one, see my earlier post: Lookout for comps at Party (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=351780&Forum=A ll_Forums&Words=878&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Li mit=25&Old=allposts&Main=351780&Search=true#Post35 1780)), but the affiliate program is for referring more players to Party, not rewarding already present players. Let's hope for a reward program too, let's not be too creative and exploit what is today.

[ZeeJustin]

I think I know what you're getting at, and if so, you're right. If they let someone do this, it takes away from their prospering affiliate program. They want people to be drawn to the affiliate program, and draw people to the site. I for one would be a very unhappy affiliate if even a single one of my referrals decided they would cut me out of the picture.

[thwang99]

A way to think about it is, Poker sites pay affiliates to attract players. The payment isn't a rake rebate. It's payment for bringing in customers, with the amount of the payment based on the quality (profitability for the site) of the customers.

Hopefully the poker sites will set up a rake rebate/comp type program IN ADDITION to the affiliate program! If they make the affiliate program a rake rebate program, there'd be no incentive for players to signup under an affiliate for the signup bonus.

I for one am an affiliate of a few online sites, and I have costs associated with what I do. For one thing, my referals are WORTH something to the poker site. Also, I have advertising costs, and hosting costs, that run in the hundreds each month. This is not even counting the huge time commitment of maintaining a poker related product that attracts players who are serious about the game to my web site, which tend to be quality customers for poker sites. This is very different from a rake rebate, and players should not be asking for a rake rebate because affiliates are getting paid for providing a service to the site, IMHO. There are other reasons to ask for a rake rebate.

But, just my opinion, and others are just as valid! In the end it's whatever's best for the site that wins, I'm afraid. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

- Tony

[lorinda]

This is not even counting the huge time commitment of maintaining a poker related product that attracts players who are serious about the game to my web site

Surely it would be easier to put "Play good cards" as your hints and tips page, and then spam every forum in the world?

Lori

[Cyndie]

Then check and see what happens if people really do get Party accounts closed on a regular basis if people sign up at Multi.

Was that just an accident? Has it happened more than the couple times mentioned here?

[thwang99]

Hi Lori,

Ahh, you make a good point. Yes, I shouldn't have mentioned my site. My mistake, and I respect your opinion about the quality of my site. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think you were implying that I was spamming, at least. Anyways, no more in future postings, I didn't realize I had crossed the line!

- Tony

[Cyndie]

how a bout a system that tracks referrals that are more productive and then pay a rake rebate based on higher percentage for more play to the player and some to the affiliate/referror...Isn't it easier to sell a referral that gives some incentive to the player?

Then make it very easy for the new player to refer people by offering the same type of incentive.

[lorinda]

LOL Thwang.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that at all.

Actually I was implying that you appear to think that making a site is a service, which is something I would love to see all affiliates do.

Everyone mentions their work from time to time, its those that mention it continuously that become the problem.


Lori

[hehateme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
maybe, they don't feel like devoting the resources to broker individual deals all day long with every new user who comes to the site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you're right. Business shouldn't be about providing service to individual customers. Why should they worry about making thousands of dollars from one person when they can make a few dollars each from thousands of people through automation. It's simply solid modern business practice.

It's just soo much more labor intensive to say "OK" than is to say "No."


[/ QUOTE ]

It's more labor intensive than that. They have a whole system built to keep track of affiliates, they'd have to do the same for players. Give them a way to track their stats, arrange a kickback system, I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it takes more effort than just saying yes.

[Cyndie]

What do you think they do when they tell you exactly how many hands you have left to clear your bonuses?

[Terry]

This thread has turned into a battle between the affiliate $pammers (read Imperialist running dog capitalist pigs) versus the independents (read first kill all the lawyers all shopkeepers are thieves).

I still maintain that affiliates bring very little business to the poker sites that a simple Google search wouldn’t have brought them anyway IF there were NO affiliate sites clogging up the web. Affiliates are now necessary only because they exist. Had the affiliate thing never gotten started, I truly think there would still be very very close to the same number of players that there are now.