Lorinda's thoughts

[hehateme]

Lori,

I think you need to re-evaluate your beliefs on affiliate sites. In particular,

"If nobody signed up through affiliates then there would be 20% more money available to the site for promotions."

That is just wrong. That 20% wouldn't go back to players, it would simply go into the sites pocket. Do you think these sites are Not-for-profit organizations?

They don't give freerolls/promotions out of the goodness of their hearts, they give them to make more money. Same reason they pay affiliates to advertise, it makes THEM more money. Affiliates have to make the site money, otherwise they wouldn't have affiliate programs now would they?

Affiliates bring more customers to the site.

Freerolls/promotions bring more customers to the site.

Both are operating costs necessary for making a site more money. The two are not in the least bit related in the way you describe. Do you understand?

[lorinda]

Affiliates bring more customers to the site.

Bad affiliates drive customers away and get online poker a bad name, pocketing money along the route.

If you didnt see the email I recieved from an online casino "Ex employee" encouraging people to go all in on the first spin of roulette, that turned out to be an affiliate, you should search it out.

Affiliates such as Mary's that send people to rip off joints, and PA's that were written on the back of an envelope at a football game, are not helping the industry clean up its reputation.

In case you didn't realise how a business works, I shall explain it to you.

They put aside a certain ammount of money for promotions.
If this money doesn't go out through affiliates, it will go out through cheaper banner adverts and freerolls/gifts/bonuses/rake rebates to players as another form of advertising.

Certain affiliates do their jobs well, and I am not going to keep mentioning their names.

My question is why should we be subject to lazy spammers who have done precisely zero for the online community (In fact PSc has done negative ammounts as I have stated previously).
The way to rid ourselves of them is to go through a site that deserves the money, or go directly to the poker site.

Lori

[hehateme]

[ QUOTE ]
Affiliates bring more customers to the site.

Bad affiliates drive customers away and get online poker a bad name, pocketing money along the route.


[/ QUOTE ]

If they pocketed money, they brought customers in, thus they made the site money, which may or may not get re-invested into freerolls/promotions.

[ QUOTE ]

If you didnt see the email I recieved from an online casino "Ex employee" encouraging people to go all in on the first spin of roulette, that turned out to be an affiliate, you should search it out.


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see how that relates. The fact that some affiliates are scam artists doesn't keep freeroll/promotion money from players.

[ QUOTE ]

Affiliates such as Mary's that send people to rip off joints, and PA's that were written on the back of an envelope at a football game, are not helping the industry clean up its reputation.


[/ QUOTE ]
True, but they don't cost players freeroll/promotional money.


[ QUOTE ]

Certain affiliates do their jobs well, and I am not going to keep mentioning their names.

My question is why should we be subject to lazy spammers who have done precisely zero for the online community (In fact PSc has done negative ammounts as I have stated previously).
The way to rid ourselves of them is to go through a site that deserves the money, or go directly to the poker site.


[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree with you more, these sites promote new customers -> more money -> more freerolls in the long run.

So why make the blanket statement that affiliates rob players of promotional money?




[/ QUOTE ]

[pokerdude1]

[lorinda]

So why make the blanket statement that affiliates rob players of promotional money?

There are exceptions, these exceptions are few.

As I have mentioned before, my site will have an affiliate site review section in a month or two and you will see that the vast majority of these people are scammers.

When people get scammed, less people play, when less people play advertising is more expensive, when advertising is more expensive, the players lose out.


If these people could put in some effort making a product to sell, instead of spamming and trying to get people to rent-a-scam then advertising costs would fall.

Lori

[lorinda]

Maybe Lorinda means that my friends site, and others steal money from her buddies' affiliate sites.

Two things wrong with this one statement.

1. You have no friends.
2. I have none either

Lori

[hehateme]

Please explain some examples of scamming affiliate sites.

Sending people to unreliable sites is one way, but what else could they do?

Also, if affiliate sites are so bad for the industry (sites, players, etc.) why do sites still use them?

According to you, affiliate sites (on the whole) are costing the poker sites a lot of money. So why do they still offer these programs?

Could it be that your asssumptions are wrong and that they are actually helping sites make money?

Why would these sites be shoveling away money? If you have this all figured out, why can't the people who have money to lose figure it out?

[hehateme]

Either way Josh, you should really put a little more time into your sites appearance and content before advertising to the public.

[hehateme]

To answer my own question, I think Josh may end up scamming someone, although not intentionally.

He offers rake kickbacks, but has no way to track an individuals rake contributions. At least this is the case on party, since party does not give a report detailing each individuals play, Josh will have no way of knowing who contributed.

Josh just started with party, so I doubt he knows how their reporting works. There is a way to track individuals on party, but I don't feel I owe Josh an explanation.

So if you play with Josh, you might get accidentally scammed. (I really don't think hes a crook) Unless you are his only referral (very possible).

[lorinda]

Please explain some examples of scamming affiliate sites

Already did, re: casino and betting all in on one number, please read old post for details.

Also, if affiliate sites are so bad for the industry (sites, players, etc.) why do sites still use them?

Bceause they do not bother to check up on them, they would close down many if they did.

According to you, affiliate sites (on the whole) are costing the poker sites a lot of money. So why do they still offer these programs?

See above.

Could it be that your asssumptions are wrong and that they are actually helping sites make money?

yes, it could.

why can't the people who have money to lose figure it out?

If people could figure stuff out for themselves, Id have nothing to write about.


I can see your point, but I still believe that people should provide a service if they are taking 20% of our money.

Some do this, and credit to them, but far too few.

Why should places like PSc be able to knowingly promote ProPoker despite knowing the place is crooked and get away with it.

If I go through an affiliate to a new site, that affilate gets 20% from the poker site.
If I don't then the poker site still gets my business, but has the extra money.

Like it or not , the 20% goes out of the advertising and promotions budget, and thats the bottom line.

What I would encourage people to do, is to think before they click, does the affiliate deserve that piece of pie, or do they not.

Lori

[Cyndie]

Excuse, that site is the one that Granny sent people to for help, and they got it.

No one has been sent to ProPoker, or Sunrise. The sites with banners are all large sites, or sites with sportsbooks, or casinos behind them, or keep money in separate accounts like VE, or are mentioned here as some of the fastest cashouts!

The research we have done is quite extensive, but your judgment seems to be set in stone. You are welcome to keep it, but please give specifics when you make accusations, and please try to keep them within the current year!

It doesn't seem that you can ever stick to the current time, but we would like to remind you of a post you made saying if people held you to the first posts you made when you got here you never would have lasted.

Oh point for discussion. Has anyone wondered if MultiPoker will be encouraging players to close Party Poker accounts in order to save affiliate monies?

[hehateme]

[ QUOTE ]

I can see your point, but I still believe that people should provide a service if they are taking 20% of our money.


[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but at the point they get it, it's not yours, it's the sites.

[ QUOTE ]

Some do this, and credit to them, but far too few.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think most of the sites who offer nothing though, get very little business because they don't have any draw to their sites. I would be surprised if Josh has a single signup who isn't a friend.


[ QUOTE ]

If I go through an affiliate to a new site, that affilate gets 20% from the poker site. If I don't then the poker site still gets my business, but has the extra money.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but this assumes everyone is going to play. What about the players who wouldn't have played had it not been for affiliate promoting/extra bonuses?

[ QUOTE ]

Like it or not , the 20% goes out of the advertising and promotions budget, and thats the bottom line.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but that budget isn't static, the bottom line is always changing depending on how the site is doing.

[ QUOTE ]

What I would encourage people to do, is to think before they click, does the affiliate deserve that piece of pie, or do they not.


[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree with you more, I really think that's all you had to say.

[lorinda]

Couldn't agree with you more, I really think that's all you had to say.

Okay, well we have some common ground, so I'll use that from now on.

I'll be sure to let you know when my site is approaching ready, you might find it entertaining.

Lori

[Jim Kuhn]

lol - Lori - You are STILL the nuts! lmao

[pokerdude1]

[pokerwhore]

ummmmm I dont think you going to see anything at that
website you mentioned since im the owner of that domain.

QTY ITEM PRICE
1 .COM Domain Name Registration - 1 Year $8.95
NIGHTLIFEPOKER.COM

so dont get your hopes UP!

[lorinda]

Now THATS a good play.

Lori

[jek187]

We certainly haven't gotten along in the past.

But I will say this: NH

[pokerwhore]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif hey mary I sell it to you for say mmmmmmmm $5,000 ?

[Cyndie]

Well shucks, the check is in the mail...please tell me when you get it. Gladly pay you the reasonable profit you deserve, at the rate of five cents a week...Guess I will change the signature to sitetobenamedlater.com

[thwang99]

Hi Lorinda,

You bring up some very good and valid points. One thing though:

"Like it or not , the 20% goes out of the advertising and promotions budget, and thats the bottom line."

Affiliate advertising is highly effective in in the online gambling business, I think. It's a good way for sites to spend their advertising budget. Word of mouth is really effective, and once a product aquires a large enough loyal following, word of mouth helps it sell more.

Same thing with sites, my theory is that affiliates are like a "loyal following", though they are loyal because of money. /images/graemlins/wink.gif Anyways, just another way to look at things, good thread!


- Tony

[Simon Diamond]

They are navigating the site.

That is quite possibly one of the funniest things I have ever read.

Simon

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever seen a southwest aircraft?? They are brown and yellow. So what if the appearance is not great, southwest is a multi million dollar company.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many people care about the color of the plane they take?

The internet is a visual medium, therefore appearance is important. If you doubt that, set your background color to black, then make your text dark blue. See what happens to your traffic.

[jek187]

[ QUOTE ]
If you doubt that, set your background color to black, then make your text dark blue. See what happens to your traffic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it would affect his traffic one bit.

[Simon Diamond]

Scratch my earlier comment about navigating the site - jek's comment has just trumped it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

NH

Simon

[Jim Easton]

lol, you might be right.

He did say they were staying to look at several pages. While my idea would not affect the number of hits, it would certainly affect the number of pages viewed.

Three cheers to Mat for his efforts to get rid of the trash.

[Terry]

In the beginning there was Google, and Google was good.

And the poker sites (and lots of other businesses) found that it was good to be at the top of Google.

And one site discovered that the way to get to the top of Google was to have other sites linking to their site. And the site went forth and begat the Affiliate. And the site rose to the top of Google. And the site made lots of money and the Affiliate made lots of money.

And the site begat more Affiliates. And each Affiliate made less money.

And the other poker sites begat Affiliates. And the Affiliates went forth and multiplied. And each Affiliate made even less money.

And Google became filled with Affiliates. And each Google search returned multitudes of Affiliate sites. And Google was not so good anymore. But the poker sites were committed, because if they slew their Affiliates they would no longer reside at the top of Google.