Watching the Stars

[FeliciaLee]

I posted about playing at the Bellagio a bit while we were waylayed in Vegas (in the B&M section).

While I was waiting for a seat one weekend night, I happened to saunter over to the rail protecting the high limit players. The high limit area is "forbidden" by low rollers and middle limit players, like most of us, but if one just stops by for a couple of seconds, we can get a glimpse of great play.

I was lucky enough to be standing outside the rail when the supervisor had left the table.

Daniel Negraneau, Ralph Perry, Jennifer Harmen and Gus Hansen were playing mixed games with a couple of unknowns. The game at the time was Stud 8. I think they switch games every half hour. The limits were fixed, 800/1600. The ante for each hand was a mere $200, lol. Someone was sweating Jennifer. I'm not sure if he was her husband or someone else.

I got to watch for about ten minutes.

Daniel was exactly as I expected him. Very fast, aware of all of the players and not missing much. Eyes darted from opponents hands, to face, to their chips, in neverending motion.

Jennifer looked very cool, calm. She was used to being in control of a game, win or lose. She sat back from the table in a controlled effort that has been perfected over the years. She must have cashed out a winner at the 16k minimum buy-in game (about 40k, although I have no idea what she brought to the table). If she had initially brought more than the 40k, and cashed out a loser, I could not tell by her body language. She seemed happy, chatty and content.

Ralph Perry was serious. He seemed to be more into silently observing and playing the game than any of the others. He might have been stuck, or he might have cashed out winner, I have no idea, as his demeanor is always serious.

Gus Hansen was in the seven seat at the end of the table. A good seat for observant players. He played with his head lowered, very seriously, eyes coming up only to study his opponents, but far too late to give away any information. He played hard and fast, a lot moreso than Daniel. He called a $1600 river bet head's up, even when he felt he had no way of winning the pot, because the pot had grown to over 20k. He was able to calculate the pot size before the dealer. Sure enough, his crying call was just that. He won neither the high, nor did he have a low. He was very good natured about it, being that he had put in almost half of the 20+k himself.

Watching the pros play was enlightening, even if for such a short period of time. The things I looked for were mostly body language. Just as I'd always imagined, they memorize their hole cards. I never saw one of them looking back at their cards. They look at faces and hands, not at the "board." Their eyes take everything in, darting around rapidly. When each hand can be the price of a new car, or even a middle class home, there is no time to sit back and relax, they must take everything in and not be constantly checking their hole cards because they can't be bothered to memorize what they started with (don't you hate that in Omaha? It slows up the game to the point of about 5 minutes for each hand). No one was wearing dark glasses or low slung ballcaps to hide their forehead. Their "tells" were completely hidden, at least from me. I couldn't pick up a tell, period. Maybe when Gus did the crying call, that could be considered a tell, as he knew he was beat, and vocalized his predicament with a large sigh, but by that time, the action on the hand was over, and there was no need to hide his holding.

I had a good, if short, experience watching these four extraordinary players. Someday I'd like to be up there, but I'm not holding my breath!!!

[Baltimore Ron]

That's interesting. During a visit to the Bellagio this past summer, I happened to watch a few minutes of a short-handed 600-1200 triple draw low ball game in which Jennifer played. She looked anything but calm, cool and collected. I got the distinct impression that the guy on her immediate right was putting bad beats on her. She was firing bets in his direction with more than normal aggression, and when dragging pots, had a look on her face that seemed to say: "See? The best hand is supposed to win." However, she never said anything out loud.

I guess it's a small consolation to pikers like me that even the great ones can get agitated from time to time.

BR

[FeliciaLee]

I have heard that about Jennifer, too. If you read Linda's diary at www.pokerworks.com (http://www.pokerworks.com) (a Bellagio dealer), you do find a few times when Jennifer has lost her cool.

Bad beats at those stakes just have to sting a lot more!

[HDPM]

Hadn't looked at the diary in a while. I am amazed anybody tips this dealer. I guess they don't know how she writes about players. IMO no dealer should ever publically write about wins or losses by any particular player. Or strategies the player uses. Unbelievable she is still employed really.

[Tyler Durden]

Did I already make it known that I'd definitely jam Jennifer Harmon if she let me?

[Boris]

yea I agree. we really get spoiled in California with the good dealers. I will say that the dealers at the Bellagio do seem to be getting better.

[MMMMMM]

I just read parts of the Diary and realized who she is. I remember her now from years ago; she was always nice and I think she dealt well too.

[bushky]

Well, I would disagree. If you have a job, its just a job, not a life. At least for most of us. What Bellagio can rightfully expect of her, apparantly she gives, and quite well I hear. Thinking that there is some type of attorney/client privelage between a dealer and a player?

Yeah, maybe when the players start treating the dealers like adults instead of like targets! I do agree with your surprise at the Bellagio's lack of reprisals though, if there have been none. Just because they shouldn't, doesn't mean they wouldn't.

I do wonder how the management of any B & M casino can allow their employees to be mistreated as often as they seem to be. It would seem to be a lawsuit waiting to happen from any of the dissed waitstaff, dealers, pit crew, etc..

bushky

[mike l.]

youre daydreaming of harmon? apparently you didnt you get a look at felicia's picture.

[HDPM]

Here is my problem. It is not analagous to attorney/client privilege since what we do in a public cardroom is public. However, I liken it to the discretion required of employees at a nice place. Like the Bellagio. If Joe Captain of Industry has three hookers in his comped suite he does not expect a Bellagio employee to post it on the internet. If he loses 2 millon at craps, he does not want to see it written about for all kinds of reasons. His loss was public in a sense, but no employee of the casino has any business writing about it. And poker players at the nicest hotel and casino in town should not see their goings on written about by an employee of that casino. If some guy of the street did it it is different. Also take the example of a high end retail store, jewelery, cars, whatever. A famous person sure doesn't want what he purchased made public. the employees know better and act with some discretion. This dealer is not acting with any discretion. I believe that is a sin for an employee in a service industry.

Now, I don't think she should have to put up with abuse, although my guess is this dealer brings some heat upon herself. I don't know her so I will give her the benefit of the doubt on that. I will assume she is a good dealer (mechanically) and is a nice person. If I figure out who she is the next time at the bellagio I will stiff her should I be fortunate enough to win a pot on her down however. And I will stiff her after that unless and until she stops the player gossip portion of her internet site. I won't abuse her or tell her my opinion or anything, but I will not tip any dealer who talks out of school about players. I might be next and so might you. Another dealer is on the publicity/stiff list, but he hasn't dealt to me since he was fired from the Bellagio.

[bushky]

HDPM,

You have made some good points about discretion in service industries. I would agree that were I to do inappropriate things I would not want to have any of my actions publicized no matter how small a forum it was.

My question would be about obligations. Do you as an employee have an obligation to do this? I don't know what type of job you have, but almost any job has some areas that the public probably doesn't want to see/hear about. Now the American public seems to think that a book is an ok way to go. So we have the "tell all" books being written about Princess Diana, Margaret Stewart, pro baseball, (insert public figure here) being snapped up. And we have all sorts of papparazzi following stars around for embarrassing photos, stories, with the requisite evening report on Celebrity Justice/Entertainment Tonight.

Not liking that either. But, and its a big but, this is still America. And so freedom of speech reigns. And the courts have held that it supercedes other liberties we also enjoy.

So, if you are looking for an excuse not to tip anyone, far be it for me to disagree. But as long as she is doing a competent job, and conducting herself legally in regards to her job description, I see no reason to treat her differently.

I would be curious if you were a dealer how much control you think you should give up. Would you be allowed to speak of things at work, but not write? Should there be a non-disclosure agreement signed at Bellagio? Would this induce you as a player to spend more time at the tables? Or how about this one: When a dealer gets abused yet again when a river suckout happens, would you be willing to have a player get carte blanche to hurl every epithet known to man, as well as cards/objects at you? And since this does in fact happen, should the players involved be forced to "tip" more?

I can tell you, I would not be able to put up with the jazz that employees at casinos do. Could you?

bushky

[nummerfire]

I think she is doing a great job promoting Bellagio.

Because of her writings, Bellagio will be the first place I visit when I hopefully visits Vegas next year.

Kim

[HDPM]

As I said, I do not think dealers should have to put up with the abuse they suffer. The casino owes them that. If the only thing this dealer did was write about abusive players I think I would probably chalk it up to justice. But she does more than that.

I would not make a good casino employee FWIW.

Were I a casino employee I would expect to be fired for writing what this dealer does.

I am not looking for an excuse not to tip. By Las Vegas standards I tip generously. There are a few dealers I will not tip. In these cases it is not due to simple incompetence or mistakes. It is because the dealer does things which hurt players or toss abuse my way. Yeah, that happens. I don't abuse them back or throw my cards, but they will not get a tip from me. Tipping is optional. Also FWIW that list of mine is short, but there are a few who will not get my money. I am not looking to add to the list either.

I do think employees in general have some obligation to be discrete. All of us do in one area of our lives or another. The fact that "tell-all" books and tabloid style journalism are more accepted now does not excuse the lack of discretion. Here's a small example.

I think all of us have had a player tell us some of their results. But we should not put them on the forums. The person who told us those results, good or bad, did not expect them to be posted. Are they privileged or classified? No. But I won't post them and neither should you. Or a dealer who is paid by poker players when it comes down to it.

[bushky]

HDPM,

I am like you in that I think I too would not be good in a casino. I don't think a service industry job in general would be healthy for me. They (the everpresent they!) say that jobs that deal with the public are very susceptible to helping create cynics. It seems that many times, the complainers in life stand out, in a bad way.

As for getting paid by the players? Hmmm, technically, maybe, sort of, indirectly? Yes. But in actuality, legally, morally? No, I don't think so. A tip, as you have stated is voluntary. So it would be impossible for dealers to "get paid" by players. Bellagio does that!

I totally agree with you about the need for discretion though. It may be a contradiction for me to say this, I will have to work on that one, but I agree that I would not want losses or comments made privately to a dealer/employee show up later. I guess when I read the posts she puts up, I see very little 'of privelage" and much about behaviour. Much of it is bad, but much of it is good. In fact it seems that she is actually "celebrating" the life of a poker fiend (either playing or dealing) and so I like it. I also agree with another poster about Bellagio actually getting more business rather than less because of her posts. But that is just conjecture, except for me. I will go there first, because of all I know about the place. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

bushky

[Rushmore]

I clicked on Felicia's post about the diary, then clicked on your response. As I was waiting for the page to load, something about this atrocious practice set in.

Then, your response page loaded, and I found that I am not alone.

I find it nearly impossible to believe that a dealer would do this and have continued employment.

The Bellagio is a hotel, first and foremost. In the hotel industry, NOTHING can be more important than discretion and privacy. The idea that the staff would disclose anything at all about any human being who should set foot on the premises is unconscionable from every perspective.

ESPECIALLY in light of the fact the information being shared with the public not only compromises the players' privacy, but also, potentially, their livelihoods.

Is there such a dearth of poker dealers in Las Vegas (har har) that this person could not be replaced?

[budman]

I think you are missing the mark a little. If I were to get drunk at the casino or buy a hooker that's done thing. I wouldn't like that to be printed.

It is everyone's right to abuse themselves however they would like. It is not my right to abuse a dealer or be offensive to other players. If I chase 7-2 off suit every time I am dealt because I have always wanted to win with it, then that is my problem. If I berate the person who decides to do that when he draws out on me, then that is wrong.

A celebrity has the right to blow six million dollars on their wedding; they do not have the right to abuse the waiters at the wedding. They deserve discression for the former. If someone publishes the latter, then so be it.

Similarly, everyone who is 21 has the right to drink. I do not feel that a person deserves to be written up every time they take a drink. But if they drive drunk, then they deserve whatever comes their way.

I also find her descriptions interesting.

[MicroBob]

i am a bj dealer at a non LV-casino and we have some sort of confidentiality employee agreement. they hit us over the head with it in orientation...i'm not sure if ihad to sign anything or not.

if i deal to michael jordan or something i'm not supoosed to brag about it to other customers (this, btw, would never happen in my establishment). if i hear that Bill Bennett dropped 30K playing video-poker at my place the other night i'll pretend i know nothing if i get asked about it.

i had a guy who left my table an obvious big-loser. when the other player asked how much i thought he lost i said "i dont know".
it is clearly not appropriate for a dealer to talk about how much a certain player bets or how often a certain player plays. to this end....i dont think it's appropriate for a dealer to relate tales of bad/good play or bad beats (by specific individuals). if i'm a poker dealer and talk about the time that some random unknown guy lost 4 A's to a royal-flush 3 months ago then that's one thing. if i talk about the time harmon or hellmuth looked like a little baby and lost their cool on a bad-beat then that's out of bounds.

we have a couple of players who come in virtually everyday....if someone else asks me if they're regulars i'll say 'i think i've seen him before'. or if they're good tippers?? 'i dont remember.'

if i circulated info publicly on specific players and their behaviour at the tables and how much they win/lose/tip i would fully expect to be fired. even if i talked about the nice players only and what gentlemen and great tippers they are i think this would be inappropriate.

[PokerPrince]

If a beat stings you that much that you get all steamed up about it perhaps a) you're playing too high or b) you're not that great of a player.

PokerPrince

[Alister]

I have been reading Linda's "diary" then "Table Tango" on her website for some time now. As a casino emplyee I was at first surprised to see the content, but I obviously kept reading. She must be reading this and the RGP post about her, she mentioned it.

[Rushmore]

When I open Rushmore's Rowdy Roulette and Rollicking Razz Roost, you'll be my first hire.

Glad to hear someone understands this seemingly simple theory.