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View Full Version : Why The Race Gaps In Educational Performance?


MMMMMM
09-27-2003, 01:46 PM
I believe Thomas Sowell hits the nail squarely on the head in these columns.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20030924.shtml

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20030925.shtml

John Cole
09-27-2003, 11:32 PM
M,

Get off these Townhall "writers." Note for example that Sowell mentions "fads" in both of your links, yet he never explains what those "fads" are. In fact, many schools across the country have turned to basic skills once again in an effort to meet the requirements of the No Child Left Behind program. You'd be interested in Malcom Gladwell's brief article in a recent New Yorker on how competency is judged. Gladwell shows that three different assessment methods give three very different competency rates. Either 77%, 20%, or 10% of students show competency in reading depending upon which method is selected. He also points out, and this should surprise no one here, that the schools that show the biggest gains are almost always the smallest schools in a state because luck plays a huge factor in test scores.

Beyond this, though, let me give you one example of how poor schools fail to measure up to wealthy schools. In the very early grades, children use color coded books to teach them certain concepts. In one school system, the color books are copied--in black and white.

MMMMMM
09-28-2003, 12:16 AM
Points taken.

What do you think about the idea that study habits and discussions away from school have much to do with a child's success?

I'm not saying economics plays no role, but if on average, scholastically speaking, Asians significantly outperform whites, and whites significantly outperform blacks...is this only due to economics, or is it also as Sowell says: Asian parents demand that their kids study hard, and their kids really do. I think a lot of it is due to culture as well as economics. If it were solely due to economics then Asians would have to be considerably richer than whites on average in order to explain their superior academic averages (heck maybe they are richer, I don't know). Also, Jewish students tend to outperform other groups. Yet they would be grouped under "white" thus serving as a counterweight to the Asian scholastic achievement (by comparison)--yet Asians still outperform whites as a group. So unless I'm missing something big I just don't see how academic performance isn't significantly influenced on average by cultural considerations as well as by economic considerations.

Personally, I think I would have benefitted had I had more structure and discipline in my school years, and also probably would have achieved more in life thus far if I had had more of it earlier. Never too late to improve one's habits though.

Chris Alger
09-28-2003, 02:04 AM
Hits the nail on the head? ???

Sowell never even directly answers your question. As far as I can tell, the closest he comes are these vague complaints:

(1) "many of the fads, dogmas, and pious hypocrisies of the education establishment"
(2) "American schools waste an incredible amount of time on fads, fun and propaganda for political correctness"
(3) "educators fail to educate and when courts create so many legal obstacles to enforcing school discipline that a handful of classroom clowns or hoodlums can prevent everyone else from getting a decent education"
(4) "successful schools teach in ways that are directly the opposite from what is fashionable in the public schools in general. Successful schools spend their time on the three R's, they teach reading with phonics, they memorize multiplication tables, and -- above all -- they have discipline"
(5) since the education problem would be solved if everyone emulated the "asians," no one can complain about lack of government support

Sowell isn't offering a serious answer to the question of the race gap or why schools fail, he's propgating the myth that public education is so choked by corrupt unions and faddish pedagogy that spending more money will do no good. There's nothing new here. I've read a dozen columns that say the same thing -- a simple parroting of the conservative line that public schools suck spiced with a few anecdotes. Notice that his benchmarks for performance are something the right rarely wants to consider when evaluating their own pet programs, like the Pentagon, prisons and the war on drugs.

His basic evidence is that "some" schools with less funding to better than schools with more. It's like saying some smokers don't die of smoking, so what's the big deal? His description of better funded schools as merely those with bigger pools and more parking gives you some idea of what he thinks of his audience.

MMMMMM
09-28-2003, 09:27 AM
I thought Sowell's point about Asians greatly outperforming whites was HUGELY important. It gives the lie to the notion that only economic factors are the cause of racial gaps in scholastic performance (unless Asians generally attend much better schools than whites and are richer as well, which seems dubious).

So take it from there. Asian children are generally brought up by their parents to study hard and work hard and to perform. It's no surprise they outperform whites. As Sowell says, there is nothing mysterious about this. And cultural differences probably explain some of the gap between the scholastic performance of whites and blacks as well, although there is clearly a significant economic difference in that comparison on average.

I don't think economic considerations are unimportant. But I think those who ignore the LARGE effect of cultural habits and conditioning on scholastic performance are ignoring one of the greatest factors when comparing such groups.

And no, if everyone emulated the Asians it wouldn't solve everything, but it sure as hell would raise our nation's average scholastic performance--by a LOT.

angry young man
10-02-2003, 01:02 PM
What do you think about the idea that study habits and discussions away from school have much to do with a child's success?

This point is interesting. I agree with you that the values of the household (which stem from cultural values) have a huge effect on scholastic (and other kinds) of success. I would expect that this has a larger effect on these trends than any genetic differences. There are issues that are ignored by these articles (perceived abilities effecting actual performance, for example) but I've always felt that it was clear some cultures placed much more value on education and this was reflected in their children's academic performance. You can divide it up racially to some degree [Asian and Jewish cultures, and even, to a degree, religious beliefs, certainly place a lot of value on knowledge and education; surprise their kids score well], but you can also see geographic and economic diferences in values. Essentially, if your family doesn't think school is important it's less likely that you'll do well, regardless of your ability.