Midnight Hold'Em

[Coilean]

It's folded to me on the button with ATo, so I do the obvious thing, the loose aggressive and tricky player in the SB (a guy with white hair who some of you Vegasites have probably played against in the 30 and 80 games) who actually plays pretty strong postflop makes it 3 bets, the just plain loose BB folds, and I call.

The SB bets dark, and we see a ragged ten high rainbow flop. I do the obvious (?!) thing again, he 3 bets me again, and I call.

He bets the turn in the dark, which turns out to be some small brick, and I call thinking that he knows I'm about to pay him off, so should I really?

He bets again in the dark, and I call regretfully after the river blanks. How do you play it?

[Bandorn]

Would This guy play 22,AK or AA the same way as a trick play? Or do yuo think he was being nice and letting yuo now HE has the Big daddy hand AA and yuo should fold? Altruism at the poker table is a somewhat doubtful thing. We are playing for money and human greed is a strong thing. If yuor at my table Id try anything to bust yuo out.

Sounds like yuor beat, But id want to see it. Interisting trick he got to get yuo to payoff to river. Curiosity is also a powerful human tendencie. Next time reraise him in the dark on flop. SEE if yuo can get him to Check it down OR better yet pay yuo off all the way to river. At least it should stop him from trying cheesy tricks on yuo.

[DanS]

Bandorn,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you foreign, or do you really not know how to spell "you" and "your"?

Dan

[andyfox]

4-bet the flop and the next time he shows any strength, throw it away.

[andyfox]

Truoblemaker . . .

[cero_z]

Hi Coilean,
In my experience, the re-raise and subsequent dark bet on the flop indicates AK. The second dark bet, though, is problematic. Most players would not do that with AK after being raised on the flop. But I still think it's his most likely hand. I guess a small set or pocket nines would be my guess for a distant second. I'd always at least call, then call the river if he bets.

[DanS]

Given the choice between offering crappy poker advice (the only kind *I* know) or shitstirring, is it really even a choice at all? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dan

[Coilean]

It was fairly unsurprising when the SB turned over QQ. I didn't much care for the way I played this one: I think raising the flop was a mistake, and I should have just called it down the whole way after flopping top pair. Given SB probably has a big ace or a big pair, I'm either way ahead or on a slightly submarginal draw, so it seems best to avoid scaring him off if he's pushing with the worst of it (which also happens to lose the least if I'm the one looking to pull off an upset). Once I flop top pair here, the whole hand seems fairly analagous to the HPFAP scenario where you just call down after being reraised preflop with QQ. Anyone agree, or have I been sticken by results oriented disease?

[Coilean]

Hmm, I certainly like this line better than the one I used, and I think overplaying my hand occassionally here has a lot to recommend it as well. One potential problem is that by putting in 4 bets on the flop, you are making the pot large enough that it's marginally correct to draw at a 5-outer if you get 5-bet or bet into on the turn, which kind of buggers the second part of your plan where you fold if he shows more strength. As I posted with my results though, I think the best default play is to not raise at all on the flop, and just call it down the whole way.

[Tommy Angelo]

"I think raising the flop was a mistake, and I should have just called it down the whole way after flopping top pair."

I double very strongly agree.

[Bandorn]

Ill try to improve my Thesis when its in published book form. Sorry Guy But theres so much to keep up with here. I have not really got the hang of editing. It might interfer with reading yuor exellent advice.

[ACBob]

Coilean,

Based upon your description of the player and the situation, I actually want to call the river.

Either he has AA or making some play, or he has AK and bets blind to represent the airline tickets.

Bob Lewis

[DanS]

Cool. I was just genuinely curious since your grammar is overall excellent but you misspelled such a simple word.

Dan

[Depraved]

I also think the analogy to the aforementioned situation described in HPFAP is extremely accurate. Calling all the way probably presents the best EV against typical opponents, and especially against tighter/tougher opponents.

[Boopotts]

I'd just check and call it down most of the time as well, although there are a few times when I'll make an exception, depending on just how ragged the flop is.

If the flop is real ragged, then sometimes I'll push my hand. It seems like I get three bet pre-flop a fair amount of the time by 55-88, and on a T64 flop, or something like that, it's going to be very hard for someone with a pocket underpair to give up their hand. (Also, with a flop this raggedy, I get called down often enough by hands like AK and AQ-- but I don't know if this happens to everyone, or just me, since I usually look like a derelict roofer who's just come into the club to blow the money he made on last weekend's side job). However, if the flop comes T9x, or T8x, I usually slow way down, since it's possible to scare off pocket 7's or AK here, and I'd rather that didn't happen.