Big Laydown

[Baltimore Ron]

This is a hand from my local pink chip (that's 7.50-15 with 2.50 chips for you West Coasties) home game and this hand took place early in the session.

I had KK (one club, one red) in mid position and raised. I can't remember if there was a limper in front, but that's not very material to the hand except for maybe adding 1 big bet to the pot.

The big blind called. The big blind in this hand will defend his blind very liberally, especially against me. The flop was 99x with two clubs. He checked and called my bet.

The turn was a low non-club card and I was promptly checked raised by the big blind, which forced me into a several-second-long mental huddle. The big blind could have a 9, two clubs, some odd-ball straight, or nothing at all. A stone-cold bluff in this case is not beyond the realm of possibility. He's done it before and will surely do it again. I decided to call the raise and fold if a club came on the river and call any other card and, of course, raise if a king came.

The river was another low club. The big blind immediately bet out and I folded. In a fit of picque, I turned over my kings. Bad form, I know, but I was more than slightly mentally deranged from a series of bad beats the week before and earlier in this session. As the pot was being shipped, and amid a chorus of "Show the bluff. It's good for the game." from other players, the winner showed down 7-2 of spades. Absolute bluff - no pair, no nothing.

During post-mortem conversations most of my poker-playing pals say I should have called down. I don't know. Even with 8 (or 9) big bets in the pot when I was put to the decision, I didn't think there more than a miniscule chance that he didn't have trips, flush or straight.

The story has a happy ending, though. Later in the session I was able to extract an extra big bet or two several times when a couple of players were convinced they could push me out of pots with raises and check raises on the turns and rivers. Unluckily for them, they were doing it when I had much better hands than overpairs. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

BR

[CrackerZack]

Results aside, you're heads up with someone you know will bluff raise you and you have an overpair. Show this down. 8 or 9 BBs mean you only have to be right 1 in 8 or 1 in 9 times to be right. Against the player you describe, seems like you would need half of that.

[Coilean]

[ QUOTE ]
The big blind could have a 9, two clubs, some odd-ball straight, or nothing at all. A stone-cold bluff in this case is not beyond the realm of possibility. He's done it before and will surely do it again.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you rate your chances of holding the best hand around 20% or better you call it down (it will cost you 2BB more to try to win 7BB, and you have a 4% chance to spike a K). Otherwise you fold.

[ QUOTE ]
I decided to call the raise and fold if a club came on the river ..

[/ QUOTE ]
Bad plan. If he was quite capable of a bluff on the turn, I'm pretty sure he won't be stopping now just because he missed his 5th chance to pair up.

[andyfox]

If he defends his blinds very liberally (damn those liberals) and is capable of a stone-cold bluff (damn those liberals), it's pretty tough to put him on any hand. Pretty easy to say now that we know he had caca-peepee (credit to Tommy Angelo for this sophisticated poker terminology), but I'd have called him down. And I would have called him down if you told me had pocket nines.

It's interesting that the other guys continued to try to bluff you after you had slightly mentally deranged fit of picque before the other guy showed you his peepee-caca (thanks to Tommy Angelo for showing me the literary value of reversing the terms). I wouldn't dare try to bluff you after that hand.

The good news is you thought about what to do, came up with a plan, and stuck to it. The mark of a good accountant.

[Baltimore Ron]

Yes, Andy, damn those liberals. Especially the real ones like Adam Smith, John Locke and Thomas Jefferson. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

You, Coilean and BigLick are all in agreement with everyone else I've asked, so I guess I was a nanny nanny poo poo for getting pushed off of the best hand. If, and this is a big if, I was absolutely convinced that I needed the K on the river to win, I should have folded. However, with enough reasonable doubt as to my standing in the hand, and having called the checkraise, I should have called the river as well.

[adios]

FWIW IMO you should consider checking the turn in this situation to induce a bluff on the river or get a call from a weak hand.

[turnipmonster]

you know, a few months ago I managed to convince myself I lose too much money getting married to big overpairs, and subsequently made a few really horrendous laydowns (like this one), and subsequently reconvinced myself that I usually want to show an overpair down, and if I'm heads up I always want to get to the river, unless there's like a flush on board or something.

he may have a 9, he's representing a hand bigger than yours , but you are getting 9 to 1 to call his river bet here. you have to be very, very sure of your read to lay this down heads up. I personally could not do it unless I was against the rock of gibraltar. I have made laydowns like this, and always regretted them, even if I would have lost the pot. I would much rather miss a bet in this spot than make a laydown like this.

--turnipmonster