Ok argue this slow-play with A-A

[thomastem]

You have a maniac yet to act that always raises pre-flop but only calls if someone raises before him. By calling then re-raising you get 3 bets rather than 2.

Now if you guys dispute this one I'm sending my Wildabeast up your way to straighten you out.

PS I'm not realy Julio with a goat from Sanford and son.....stop it.

[jasonHoldEm]

This is one of the situations where limping with AA is fine...unfortunately, when the maniac decides that this hand isn't worth playing and folds, and the BB flops an ugly two pair that cracks your aces, you'll have to be cool with that.

Please call off the Wildabeast.

jHE

[Homer]

I don't see how anyone could argue that limping here is wrong.

[lorinda]

It would be wrong if the other 8 players thought that Mr. Raise/Call was so strong that they did not want to play any pot that he had raised, but were happy to gamble against him when he called.

Lori

[lorinda]

Why is there a Wildabeast in my bathroom?

Lori

[ramjam]

If anybody else comes along re-raising pre-flop looks like the way to go.

But if only the maniac wants to party are you going to re-raise? What is your strategy from the flop onwards? I know you absolutely must get to showdown but how do you extract the most on the preponderance of occasions when you finish first? Call me rash, but in many cases smooth calling pre-flop and waiting to check-raise the flop or the turn might be best.

[ramjam]

PS: And what sort of wimpy maniac is it who only calls when someone raises in front of him? I want the real psycho who pops it back with K3o and then jams the flop when he pairs his 3.

[J.R.]

But presumably (and this may represent a big leap), they were observant enough to notice the same trend that are animal loving hero noticed, namely that he popped it whenever there was no raise before him preflop, and this would lead the other 8 to place a heavy disocunt on the preflop prices our maniacal next door neighbor was charging.

[lorinda]

Well, I have to agree, I am just assuming that if such a nutter exists that we are playing in a lovely dream, so I dreamt up another eight players to make it more fun /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lori

[thomastem]

[ QUOTE ]
If anybody else comes along re-raising pre-flop looks like the way to go.

But if only the maniac wants to party are you going to re-raise? What is your strategy from the flop onwards? I know you absolutely must get to showdown but how do you extract the most on the preponderance of occasions when you finish first? Call me rash, but in many cases smooth calling pre-flop and waiting to check-raise the flop or the turn might be best.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an option, my main point is that it is sometimes more profitable to call A-A (or high pairs) rather than automatically everytime Raising with them.

Knowing your players, your table image, and situation can change the correct play IMO.

[thomastem]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be wrong if the other 8 players thought that Mr. Raise/Call was so strong that they did not want to play any pot that he had raised, but were happy to gamble against him when he called.

I agree. My main point is that A-A is not an automatic pre-flop raise.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

[thomastem]

[ QUOTE ]
PS: And what sort of wimpy maniac is it who only calls when someone raises in front of him? I want the real psycho who pops it back with K3o and then jams the flop when he pairs his 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

You get this you will profit even if you make several mistakes yourself.

[thomastem]

[ QUOTE ]
But presumably (and this may represent a big leap), they were observant enough to notice the same trend that are animal loving hero noticed, namely that he popped it whenever there was no raise before him preflop, and this would lead the other 8 to place a heavy disocunt on the preflop prices our maniacal next door neighbor was charging.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this happens doesn't that mean my A-A is getting a bigger pot? I may lose more hands with more people in but that doesn't necessarily mean I make less overall profit.

[thomastem]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I have to agree, I am just assuming that if such a nutter exists that we are playing in a lovely dream, so I dreamt up another eight players to make it more fun /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm.... I'm sending my Walrus to help that widabeast.

[Inthacup]

Thomas,

The situation you describe does not really fit my definition of slowplay. The limp-reraise is a good move and should be used in these rare times when you have a psycho aggressive at your table. If you were at a regular table and limped in the hopes that someone would raise so that you could call and plan to check-raise him later on the turn, I would have a problem with that philosophy. Do you see the difference?

[J.R.]

Exactly, I was agreeing with you and offering a rebuttal to lorinda's idea that limping isn't good if the rest of the table respected the maniacs raises but not his coldcalls because that isn't likely to be the case, so limp re-raising is best because you get a bigger pot when holding the nuts preflop.

[lorinda]

Surely if I raise with my Aces and get nine callers for a 20 small bet pot it is better than calling, getting one raise and being heads up for a six bet pot given the likely increase in pot size in the two situations?

Maybe it is closer than I first thought?

Lori

[J.R.]

But neither is as nice as calling, watching maniac raise and 8 people call two as the action gets back to you and you...

I'd rather have 9 opponents for 20 bets than one opponent for 7 bets (the blind is out there), although the implied odds of being heads'up with a maniac may shift the balance, yet having the maniac in the multiway hand may also allow you to clear the field post-flop if he pops you on the flop.

[lorinda]

Sorry, the people in my imaginary situation always fold when maniac raises, that was my only attempt to say that even situations that break the rules, have their own rules that can be broken.

Lori

[J.R.]

In my imaginary situation I'm good at poker, and unfortunately I have established that imaginary rule is anything but unbreakable on a regular basis.