Ciaffone quiz question

[M2d]

#3 When is it most frequently correct to simply check and call?
a)when facing one opponent who is a tricky player
b)when you have a drawing hand with lots of opponents
c)when facing a couple of tight players

Bob Ciaffone has his answer and I have a different one. what's everyone's thoughts on this one?

answers to follow

[M2d]

B.C.: (b) "there is not much sense pumping the pot on a typical draw if there are lots of players in, because you can hardly ever use your semibluffto win the pot. someone will look you up, and maybe you'll get raised"

M2d: Not c, not b, so it has to be a. why put in a raise with a draw when you know that your opponent can and will play back at you with nothing (or with the nuts). In B, you probably lose the semi-bluff potential, but you can probably raise for value against a big field, especially if you have a couple of caller between the bettor and yourself. with a large enough field, checkraising an early (but later than you) bettor isn't out of the question.

[Ed Miller]

I'd say b. I check-call most often probably with weak draws in multiway pots.

[calig]

I would say a provided pot odds are there and vary play on b by betting or check calling depending on position, type of players, etc.

[ML4L]

Hey M2d,

I too did not agree with Ciaffone's answer to this question (I was planning on posting it to see what others thought, but you beat me to it...). While check-calling with draws is sometimes the correct play, I can think of numerous situations where it is best to bet/raise (most of these situations involve being in position and/or having a draw to the nuts and/or having a very large field). I feel that such situations arise often enough that check-calling will more typically be correct in situation (a) than (b). I'm interested to see if others agree with us...

ML4L

[J.R.]

I think part of the problem is that from Ciaffone's point of view, there are draws and there are super draws. With an average draw, he doesn't want to give someone the opportunity to raise and drive out the field, since you like the company. But in MLHP, while he is conservative with average draws he does advocates playing super draws fast. Also note that his question is when is it most frequently correct to check and call. Its not an all or nothing proposition.

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
but you can probably raise for value against a big field, especially if you have a couple of caller between the bettor and yourself. with a large enough field, checkraising an early (but later than you) bettor isn't out of the question.

[/ QUOTE ]

This may be true, but isn't the typical scenario, as depending on where the bet comes from and how many people call it, calling may be best. But in both your and Ciaffone's scenarios, an intial check is advocated. Ciaffone never said he wouldn't check-raise, but I don't think the typical situation he envisions invovles a bet and 3 callers before you have to act, as he thinks of 4 players in the pot as a crowd*.

* see his discussion of when to bet overcards on the flop in MLHP.

[RollaJ]

Ill check-call in situation B more than any other (of course with a big flush draw and enough callers Id raise if I think Id get enough callers). In A or C I feel I may be able to raise or check raise and take the pot right there in many situations