How much to bring to a 20-40 game....?

[Scottnyce]

I just won my fantasy baseball league....1st place takes home 1600.

I wanted to roll this over into my bankroll and head down to Atlantic City to play either a 20-40 or a 15-30 game or two. Is this enough? How much should I bring?

Where can I find the most # of these games spread?

Thanks in advance....

[Jeffage]

The only places that spread games this high are the Taj and the Borgata with Taj having the most tables and (imo--just visited Borgata last week) better, though sometimes crazy agressive action. The games are also good at the Borg though and the room has more niceties (comfy chairs, hot waitresses, flatscreen tv's, beer in a bottle, etc). I never go to a game without 50 big bets. Usually buy in for 25 bets...if you lose them, you can consider leaving if you don't like the game or think you're getting outplayed. Buy in $1000 for 20-40 with $1000 in reserve (though 800 and 800 is ok i guess), for 15-30, id say you need 1500 total (I just buy in for two racks and bring more if I need it). The games are very good but very wild on weekends. Prepare for possibly very large swings and be aware you could lose all the money you bring.

Good luck,

Jeff

[David]

That is 2 $800 buy-ins at 20/40. It is possible to play well and lose that in a couple of hours though. I usually buy-in $800 on 20/40 and $600 on 15/30. If I am going for several days I usually take $3000 playing those limits.

[Ray Zee]

if you are playing that high of stakes you should know that what you bring doesnt matter at all. if you are a winning player you will be ahead sooner or later and should bring all your money that you can risk. if you are not one, than you should play video games. or stakes that are for entertainment only.
since you dont understand this then i suggest you play smaller stakes until you are sure you can win at the higher games. trust me.

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
if you are a winning player you will be ahead sooner or later and should bring all your money that you can risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone else believe this?

[Scottnyce]

The 1600 is purely for entertainment, thats why i wanted to move up in stakes, I'm a winning player at 10-20 live so I Figured I'd step up to get the rush, since I have the money to burn.

Why does eveyone on this site think that we all play with our rent money? Or if we lose at the "higher Stakes" games we'll be taken out back and shot?

[RollaJ]

There is a difference btwn moving up in stakes and "taking a shot", you can take a shot at either one of those games with $1,000...no problem. But to make 15-30 your game Id say you need $7500-$10,000 assuming you want to play out of that bankroll and minimize the risk of needing to add money

[Scottnyce]

Thats exactly what I wanted to do....just take a shot at the big table....

Thanks for the response J

[CrackerZack]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does eveyone on this site think that we all play with our rent money? Or if we lose at the "higher Stakes" games we'll be taken out back and shot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think most people do. But you also didn't specify if you usually play 2-4 or 10-20, so people naturally assume that you really wouldn't want to drop a grand, even if you have a few million in the bank, so they advise to stay away from the possibility. But if you're successful near that level and want to take a shot, go nuts, good luck.

[JTG51]

Does anyone else believe this?

Yes. If you can beat the game, setting a loss limit silly.

[J.R.]

I think his aversion was with bringing all the money you care to risk, which could be interpeted as bringing your whole bankroll, (since your whole bankroll is at risk) and that he might feel uncomfortable with 9-12K in his pocket when aiming to play the 30 and 40 games in AC over one weekend. But I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so something in my translation could be amiss.

[David]

He never said he was going pro at these stakes. Why always the big thing about bankroll? So, if I go to Louisiana for a weekend to play 20/40 I MUST take $12,000? That is the 300BB bankroll that is commonly accepted as adequate. Like most of you, I don't make my living playing poker, it is a profitable and enjoyable hobby for me. Therefore, if I choose to play 20/40 with only $800 in my bankroll and lose it, then no big deal, I just replace it. The theory of a bankroll is to prevent you from going broke. Right? I am not going broke whether I win or lose $800. I do have the luxury of having a very nice bankroll, but for a recreational player who does have a reliable source of income and who is playing with discretionary funds it is not required. Hey, and I thought it was obvious the guy was talking about taking a shot with some discretionary income when he said he was thinking about playing "a game or two" with the money he won in a fantasy baseball league. Also, there is nothing wrong with a recreational player having a loss limit. That limit should be whatever he can afford to lose at any given time or whatever he feels comfortable with. Nothing wrong with that. I have reached that point before and felt the best thing for me was to get up and leave even though I knew I was one of the best players in the game. Just as there can be many ways to play a hand depending on opponents, there can be many ways to approach the game as a whole depending upon your individual situation.

[J.R.]

You should read the posts you are replying to. I was responding to a specific point made by Rollaj concerning whether anyone disagreed with Ray Zee's comment that one should bring all the money a person can risk to the game. Just because you are willing to risk money in a poker game (ie your bankroll, if you choose to keep one, or your loss limit, if you're just rich) does not necesarily mean you should carry it on your person, as that much cash may make you feel uncomfortable.

[ QUOTE ]
So, if I go to Louisiana for a weekend to play 20/40 I MUST take $12,000?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, of course not, but Ray Zee's post indicated if you can risk that much playing poker then you should bring all of it with you. I am sure you can see the possible problems that may arise carrying that much cash.

[David]

I wasn't replying specifically to you J.R., sorry I just hit the reply on your post.

[mosch]

If you want access to $12k cash, I'd suggest finding a bank that allows very high or unlimited daily withdrawals, and using that institution for your roll. A number of institutions will even refund the casino-imposed ATM transaction fee if your balance is over $10k, thus taking away the only major downside of this approach.

[RollaJ]

Lets say I have access to $30,000 in the bank (which I could risk), +$10,000 in my poker roll which I of course would be willing to risk.... Does it make sense to go down to Ac to play $15-30 with $40,000 in my pocket??

I mean I think anyone who drops $20,000 in a session of 15-30 oughtta call it a day. Maybe even give up poker for good.

Just a note:I am not worried about carrying the money on me, I just think there has to be a point where you say enough is enough even if you are a winning player

[Ulysses]

I think you're taking Ray's comment way too literally.

[RollaJ]

I think it was wrong for him to attack the original poster, who was in fact asking a legitimate question. To respond the way he did, trying to make the original poster look like an azzhole was just stupid coming from an author who supposedly is trying to educate players.

I just thought Id point out his stupidity

[Ulysses]

Fair enough. Though I don't think Ray's answer was all that harsh and I think he was really just being helpful, albeit pretty blunt.

Anyway, as to the initial poster, I think $1000 is a good amount to sit down w/ at a 15-30/20-40 game and take a shot. Before you lose that much you should be able to figure out whether or not you're comfortable in the game and whether or not you're playing well (thinking about whether or not most of the money is going in when you're ahead or behind is an easy way to at least generally evaluate this). So, bringing $1600 for a weekend or whatever sounds like a reasonable number.

[Ray Zee]

thats right ulysses,

of course i am blunt. do people want an answer that is sugar coated to make them feel good or do they want the way it looks from the question they asked.
i meant and it looks clear to me that you should bring what you feel comfortable risking for the venture, not all the money you have in the world. why would anyone think i am implying that.
and players should understand about playing and bankroll, especially at higher limits. and he seemed not to. i dont know his particular situation so i made a generic post which i believe is correct. thanks.

[BillD]

Here's some math.

Bankroll requirements:
Hours=hours played, EV=expected value or win rate (units or big bets), SD=hourly standard deviation (units or big bets), BR=bankroll required (units or big bets).

For a Risk of Ruin of 5%.

Assuming breakeven (0 EV) play:
Hours: 4 SD: 10 BR= 39
Hours: 20 SD: 10 BR= 88
Hours: 160 SD: 10 BR= 248

Hours: 4 SD: 15 BR= 59
Hours: 20 SD: 15 BR= 131
Hours: 160 SD: 15 BR= 372

Assuming positive (+1 EV) play:
Hours: 4 SD: 10 BR= 36
Hours: 20 SD: 10 BR= 72
Hours: 160 SD: 10 BR= 134
Hours: inf SD: 10 BR= 149

Hours: 4 SD: 15 BR= 55
Hours: 20 SD: 15 BR= 115
Hours: 160 SD: 15 BR= 249
Hours: inf SD: 15 BR= 337

Therefore, assuming you are a breakeven player, for 20/40 you need a bankroll of $1560-$2360 for a session, $3520-$5240 for a weekend, or $9920-$14880 for a month to have a 95% probability of not going broke.