Middle Limit Hold'em Poker, Bob Ciaffone and Jim B

has anyone read this book. Bob C's no limit/pot limit was said to be a good/must read by mason and other. How is this one?

thanks

Brian

I'm not done with it yet. I am about 1/3 through it. So far I have found the book helpful. I like its format and there is a lot to absorb. The authors state that they believe concrete examples are necessary to teach theory, and they provide a lot of examples. I think there will be criticism of the book because of this; because there are so many examples some are going to disagree with some of them. (I think the authors acknowledge the fact that some will disagree with how a hand should be played.) However, the examples do show "both sides" of a theory, i.e. when to use a given strategy or what game conditions favor a given strategy. They also balance opposing concepts and show examples, something pointed out as necessary to good play in HPFAP.


I am interested to see Mason's review of the book when he gets around to it. He will be able to give you a more detailed review than I can. As for me, I have no doubt the book will help me. Many of the questions I have been having about strategic decisions on the flop and turn will be addressed I think. I think the book will help give me a structure to think through various options and pick a good one based on relevant factors. The book also gets me thinking about the game. I like Ciaffone's other books and know they have helped. This one should too.

I haven't yet seen the book, but I do intend to buy it. I think Jim's columns are the best thing in Card Player. I like the specificity of the examples and his clear and concise explanations of his advice, even when I disagree with it, as I have here.


I, too, am interested to see Mason's review, since he was somewhat harsh with Jim here towards the end of Jim's regular posting days (and I know Mason says this is because he holds published authros to a higher standard) and he also disparaged Jim's approach of using examples without sufficient grounding in theory. I know that Mason thinks highly of Ciaffone.


I think both Jim and Bob write well, so I look forward to the book. I've never met Jim, but he was always kind and generous with me here, even when I was a good deal less than brilliant (which is often).

I haven't seen the book yet either. When it comes available, I'll try to give it a fairly high priority and get a review up.


By the way, my reviews are known to be very accurate, and yes, we two hold other writers to a higher standard. That's the way it should be.

"my reviews are known to be very accurate"


I don't know if accurate is the correct word, but they are perceptive, at least for me. Without fail, the books you have said are very good I have found helpful to my game and the ones you have said are not, I have also found less than helpful.


"we two hold other writers to a higher standard. That's the way it should be."


I agree. It's one thing for Andy Fox to post his thoughts about a hand here, where if my advice is less than great, it can be discussed and refuted. It's another for a book or column to be published that will be read by thousands of people who could be harmed if the advice given therein is faulty.

I just got this book in the mail ----I mean "just"--its still cold.


An interesting hand is pictured on the cover. Tells a little story -- like the hand on the cover of 21st Century HEPFAP----except without the 8's, 3's, or pistol. They even give a little discussion of the hand inside the book.


Book seems to be heavily "situation quiz and then discussion" oriented. Remember the "Jim Brier Quiz" from a year or so ago? Some similarity to that, but without the scoring.


I will take my first read thru the book this weekend. Looking forward to Mason's review (and the comments of others) both in regard to content and also the teaching method used.

A couple of times in the examples I have noticed that situations get set up that may have been created by an initial mistake, i.e. calling with a hand maybe you shouldn't have. If the hand were posted on a forum, people might say, "Well your first mistake was..." The example then goes on to show some other point about strategy. This does not bother me at all, but you don't want to assume that the assumptions in the problem are always correct. I fear some people will unfaily slam the book on the basis of mistakes they pick out. I hope any criticism focuses on the big points.

The authors actually point this out in the opening chapter (page 2, middle paragraph).

I'm a little over half way through. this is a VERY dense book. My guess is that since Bob and Jim self published they had less to spend on fancy graphics and layout so the density of words per page is very high for a poker book. Its probably 30% denser then the 2+2 books which uses card graphics.


As HDPM said I'm sure some are going to take issue with the structure as well as some of the advice. But just the wealth of examples alone make this book worth owning. The discussion after each situation generates good thought even if you end up disagreeing with the authors.

"When it comes available"


I've had my copy for about a week.

I ordered my copy last week from Conjelco and got it yesterday. Looks good.

There's a great deal of differeence between holding up to a higher standard and holding up to ridicule.


You ran Jim out of here mason, and the forum is worse off for it.

Sorry. We call them like we see them.

Sammy,


I had assumed that Jim hasn't been around here lately because (a) he had been in Tunica or otherwise on the road for several weeks and (b) he may have been busy putting the finishing touches to his new book (which I have now ordered BTW).


I sure hope that he hasn't stopped posting here altogether.


I agree that Mason's criticism of Jim's advice was probably a little too harsh particularly given the time and effort Jim put in to assist us on these Forums. On the other hand, shit happens. I would think that Jim Brier is more than capable of handling such criticism without letting things get personal.


There is no doubt that I miss his posts particularly the ones where he questions advice given by other poker authorities or when he challenges me on some of the stuff I put up here...god knows, he and I have disagreed lots but the key thing is that while I can disagree with some of what he says, I can never question his logic or ability to think.


In any event, I hope that you are wrong when you say that he has left for good.

i just ordered the book from conjelco..i think i gained the most personally in my development as a poker player following the arguments of mason vs brier...i wanted jim to be correct, but i tell you mason was right, and jim would not stop, and that's when i think mason got a tad vicious, but hey this is life...anyway...i'll learn a lot from the book..and maybe we can even discuss where we would go from there...in effect mason takes you from +1 sb to 1 bb and above...jnho..hope the book comes soon..got gr8 support from chuck at conjelco..also finally ordered mason's lowball draw book..gotta be something there..gl all... i clearly realize brier is a much stronger playre than i...gl