RGP animosity question

[M2d]

Where does their hate for 2+2 come from? Now, I realize that there have been certain individuals in the past who have had run ins with Mason or David, but there seems to be some overwhelming consensus there that 2+2 give faulty advice, and that the poker content on RGP is loads better/more acurate.
Now, I look at RGP through google which displays 25 threads per page, newest to oldest. Scrolling through the first few pages, I'm reading about television shows and movies, president bush (ad nauseum), various get rich quick schemes, WPT and other tournament errata (non-strategic, trivial stuff), trolls, cheating, personal insults, why 2+2 sucks, online rooms ads (from shills), and other assorted non strategy related threads.
In the first four pages (100 threads), I've seen only two suited connector questions, two hand discussions, an interesting discussion (started by vince) about skill level needed for varous structures, and a tournament hand discussion that could qualify as "strategy" related. even then, one of the suited connector threads was more of a statistics question than a strategy one.
additionally, these threads were, for the most part, the least responded to

where, exactly, is all this brilliant poker advice on RGP, and who are the ones giving it?

[Rick Nebiolo]

If you have a fast newsfeed and good newsreader (I use Forte Agent) you can put watch filters on those who are consistantly worth reading (e.g., Howard Lederer, Calahan MacCool, Speed Racer aka aka, Mike McClain, Paul Phillips) and kill filters on the people who post little but garbage (actually I don't use the kill filters). Agent makes skimming RGP and isolating on the worthwhile posts a breeze.

IMO RGP is good for poker news, discussion of poker controversies, and some strategy. But you have to learn to skim.

Regards,

Rick

[Divad Yksnal]

It's human nature to form a we against them mentality, that's part of it.

Rec.gambling.poker is much older than twoplustwo, and many of the old veteran posters have been around so long, that poker discussions are boring and never contain new info. That's part of it.

Mason Malmuth is very disliked by a large number of people, including RGP. That's part of it.

Some posters on rgp have animosity towards everyone, including themselves. That's part of it.

Most people are followers, since the "leadership" of rgp consists of those who post the most, and not the best, they can direct the nature newsgroup. Some of the leadership is bitter. That's part of it.

Most of the longterm posters on rgp have posted good things here and vice versa. That's not part of it.

DY

[Homer]

Where does their hate for 2+2 come from

It's an attempt to create meaning in their otherwise boring and unimportant lives. I think that's why most petty conflicts start -- people simply have nothing better to do.

where, exactly, is all this brilliant poker advice on RGP, and who are the ones giving it?

I don't know. Only once or twice have I seen good, detailed advice on RGP.

-- Homer

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Mason Malmuth is very disliked by a large number of people, including RGP. That's part of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly disagree with statements like this. The vast majority of posts that I see which are negative towards myself are people who I either don't know at all or hardly know.

MM

[Vehn]

uh Mason they're allowed to dislike you or at least dislike the impression they have of you from your and other people's posts without actually knowing you personally in real life.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Vehn:

That may be the case, but I have certainly read many things about myself, such as how I lived in a cheap studio apartment for years and drove old beat up cars which just isn't true. (I never lived in a studio apartment, and every car I have ever had was bought when it was brand new.)

Best wishes,
mason

[droidboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Where does their hate for 2+2 come from?

where, exactly, is all this brilliant poker advice on RGP, and who are the ones giving it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think many people hate 2+2. A lot of people don't post very much on 2+2 because they have no interest in promoting 2+2 products. There are also various copyright issues which keep off other RGPers. Censorship by Mason and others, either actual or just the threat of it, keeps off other posters.

As someone else mentioned, many long time players aren't very interested in the content at 2+2. While a lot more of it is "on topic" and the segregation into separate forums makes it easier to keep discussions distinct, most of the conversations tend to be fairly mechanical. I rarely see any true gems here.

Take this combination of issues, and you can see why some people might prefer one over the other.

I read both, but post primarily to RGP at the moment. But whenever I'm in the mood for good stud/8 conversations I come directly to 2+2. No ifs ands or buts.

One nice thing about RGP is that it exists in searchable archive form as well at groups.google.com (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.gambling.poker). They have most every post made to RGP since its creation. If you take Rick's list of "quality posters" and read everything they've written over the last 10 years, you'll learn more about poker than you ever thought possible. It's worth noting that many of the best RGP posters have also posted on 2+2.

- Andrew

[Wake up CALL]

"It's worth noting that many of the best RGP posters have also posted on 2+2."

I believe you meant to say It's worth noting that many of the best 2+2 posters have also posted on RGP.

As far as copyright issues, what do you mean in that regard?

[Inthacup]

such as how I lived in a cheap studio apartment for years and drove old beat up cars which just isn't true. (I never lived in a studio apartment, and every car I have ever had was bought when it was brand new.)

I don't see why you should be concerned with this or how it affects anyone's opinion of you. I have always held you and your poker knowledge in high regard as do most everyone that I know. I figured that you would disregard "accusations" like this in the same manner that you disregard the internet forum(lol).

But I do agree with you in that the majority of the character attacks I've ever read have come from those who have never met the person they're attacking.

[droidboy]

[ QUOTE ]
"It's worth noting that many of the best RGP posters have also posted on 2+2."

I believe you meant to say It's worth noting that many of the best 2+2 posters have also posted on RGP.

As far as copyright issues, what do you mean in that regard?


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, since David and Mason started posting on RGP before they were posting on their own site, I think you'll agree that labeling someone as an RGP poster versus a 2+2 poster is a bit silly. Which was exactly my point. Most posters don't pledge allegience to a forum. They just post where they feel comfortable posting.

As far as copyright is concerned, you have read the terms and conditions, haven't you?

- Andrew

[DrSavage]

LOL. Good for you Mason, good for you.
[ QUOTE ]

That may be the case, but I have certainly read many things about myself, such as how I lived in a cheap studio apartment for years and drove old beat up cars which just isn't true. (I never lived in a studio apartment, and every car I have ever had was bought when it was brand new.)


[/ QUOTE ]

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
I figured that you would disregard "accusations" like this in the same manner that you disregard the internet forum(lol).

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi ...cup:

This is a great line and I'll try to keep it in mind.

Best wishes,
Mason

[skp]

Other RGP posters well worth reading (although some rarely post these days):

Abdul Jalib

Tom Weideman

Sean Duffy

Terrence Chan

Quadnines (the guy is a nitpicker and has a onetrack mind to be sure but I have to disagree with Vince's observation that this guy has never really played poker. The man may be an irritating, condescending pest but his poker knowledge is real and obvious. I learn from his posts).

Barry T has some old posts that are quite good. BTW, his CP articles are consistently excellent.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
That may be the case, but I have certainly read many things about myself, such as how I lived in a cheap studio apartment for years and drove old beat up cars which just isn't true. (I never lived in a studio apartment, and every car I have ever had was bought when it was brand new.)


[/ QUOTE ]

As someone who drives a beatup car and lives in a crappy apartment I resent the tone of your argument.

[Wake up CALL]

"As far as copyright is concerned, you have read the terms and conditions, haven't you?"

Yes I have but you seem to think some never before discovered earth shattering advice is discussed on RGP rather than 2+2 due to this. I don't see any more protection on a USENET discussion board.

[CrackerZack]

[_2000Flushes]

I live in a cheap studio apartment.

[Rick Nebiolo]

skp,

I already have Abdul and Tom and agree regarding Quadnines - and wonder who he is. Sean I should add but haven't seen much of his stuff lately. I'll do a search. Terrance is very good too. Seems busy with Stars stuff.

Didn't know about Barry T posting on RGP. Agree his Card Player articles are very good. Love Google's Advanced Group Search. 2+2 needs something half as good.

Regards,

Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

skp,

Regarding Barry Tennenbaum (sp?), what name did he post under on RGP?

~ Rick

[Divad Yksnal]

"I strongly disagree with statements like this. The vast majority of posts that I see which are negative towards myself are people who I either don't know at all or hardly know.

MM "


Let's ask some questions to see how this is flawed.

Are you (yes you) negative towards Hitler, Saddam, Stalin, Benedict Arnold, Ted Bundy?

Have you ever met any of them?

Point made.

Now I AM NOT comparing MM to any of the above, that is not my point.

By the way, in my few posts here, have I ever made negative statements towards MM? Search the archives and find a post where I stated, and I mean this, that he was on of a very few authors that could beat live limit hold'em games for 100+ a year. In his case, easy.


Now those few of you capable of it, please evaluate MM's comments and judge for yourselves. No need to post, as the mediocre attack dogs would emerge. In my case, make that attack puppies, though.




DY.

[J.R.]

Perhaps the more relevant inquiry is what the posters negative towards MM know of him (or think they know of him) rather than whether MM knows them?

Working with your analogy, just because Saddam doesn't know me doesn't preclude me from having knowledge of Saddam that might lead me to have a negative view of Saddam.

[adios]

"Mason Malmuth is very disliked by a large number of people, including RGP. That's part of it."

What do you consider a large number of people? Can you substantiate your claim or is it just an opinion?

Anyway several years ago there was this poster on RGP named Ed (can't remember his last name) and of course Abdul who made IMO many posts highly critical of Mason. Ed' main beef was Mason's seemingly unpopular stance on the extent of cheating in public card room's. Caro made some IMO ridiculous statement about the amount of cheating in high stakes games in public card rooms where $85 an hour or some such was pilfered from high stakes games. Mason was firm in his stance and Ed didn't like it and carried on a crusade denouncing Mason IMO. Where is Ed these days? Abdul had a controversial post about cheating at the commerce and generally seemed to display a lot of animosity towards Mason for whatever reason. Then there was Gary Carson who seems negatively disposed towards lots of people. Then there's DianeFromGreenBay who posted about the same event regarding some encounter with Mason in seemingly 10 new threads. Then there's lvdrs who's a dealer that I suspect has dealt in games Mason played in. All of these negative posters fan the flames so to speak so you get some adolescent type situation where people just go along with the crowd. Just my take.

[droidboy]

[ QUOTE ]
"As far as copyright is concerned, you have read the terms and conditions, haven't you?"

Yes I have but you seem to think some never before discovered earth shattering advice is discussed on RGP rather than 2+2 due to this. I don't see any more protection on a USENET discussion board.


[/ QUOTE ]

I do? There isn't?

As usual, you are wrong on both counts. Thanks for playing.

- Andrew

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"As far as copyright is concerned, you have read the terms and conditions, haven't you?"

Yes I have but you seem to think some never before discovered earth shattering advice is discussed on RGP rather than 2+2 due to this. I don't see any more protection on a USENET discussion board.


[/ QUOTE ]

I do? There isn't?

As usual, you are wrong on both counts. Thanks for playing.

- Andrew

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the clarification, your point is now perfectly clear.

[skp]

"Barry Tanenbaum", I believe

[skp]

I forgot about Izmet fekali...always worth reading

[Rick Nebiolo]

skp,

That's it. Just Googled it and got the shortcut of his posts on my desktop for later reading.

Thanks!

Rick

[Rainbow Warrior]

Hi Mason,

Stop reading those tabloids!!

You might be a little testy having to moderate the recent foolishness in the internet forum. I'm sure that's not how you plan to spend your time. Good job and things seem to be settling down.

Love this site. Now, back to poker....