overs hand mess 20-40

[mike l.]

so there we are at 6am and some superfish comes in and drops like 3-4 racks in about 30 minutes. lovely. some of us have overs buttons meaning when only overs players are in the pot we are playing 40-80 postflop.

superfish openraises 2 from button (we're 7 handed), cutoff flat calls (he is very loose and very aggressive player who would rather be playing 100-200 or something, he is a huge donator but very aggressive/tricky as well--this guy gets paid off big on his winning hands), i 3 bet w/ ATo on the button to isolate these two guys. folded back to superfish and cutoff who both call. all 3 of us have overs buttons.

the flop is AsKc6s. fish checks, cutoff bets, i raise, fish calls two cold, cutoff calls.

the turn is 8c. fish bets, cutoff calls, i raise, fish goes all in for another full bet, now cutoff 3 bets. i think and think and call.

the river is 4d. cutoff bets, i call.

comments?

[Dynasty]

It's important to know if you had the Ac. If not, then I'm slightly more inclined to go to the showdown since there's a chance your opponent has Acxc.

[DocHollyday]

Hi Mike,

Well, taking a look at that whole situation, I suppose the cutoff hit aces up with 8ths, as this would be a hand I'd give him to isolate the fish.

About your call, with 16 1/2 big bets (I hope I counted right) in the pot, it's more or less a must to call the last one too (for the missed flush draw). However, I'd really wonder about the results. I personally don't think you got that pot.

[Softrock]

Hi Mike:

With two players already in, even if they are big fish, I don't think ATo is strong enough to make this isolation play. One of the things I've learned the hard way is not to get too anxious trying to find +EV situations with major donators in the hand. I think waiting for a better opportunity BTF was the preferable play. I'd make the play heads up but not against two.

[mikelow]

AT offsuit a three-bet hand? I would have folded preflop.

Did you have an overs button?

Getting to the hand, postflop you played fine.

[mike l.]

i had AhTc to answer dynasty's question. yes it definitely occured to me that all in had picked up a flush draw so i wasnt very worried about him given the way he played the flop.

as for cutoff and what he had that took much more thought. i figured he either had a set of 8s or 6s or he was putting a move on me w/ a worse hand. of course the pot was protected by an all in player so him putting a move on me wasnt very likely--or is it? as i thought about what to do on the turn i considered that for a good minute and i realised that this player is capable of using the all in player (who was on tilt and could have very very little) to send me a false message that my pair was no good. in other words cutoff knew that i knew that the all-in player protected the pot from semibluffs so what better time to make one. and in fact this was exactly the case. on the river when i called, cutoff turned over KsJs, all in had Qs8s and my hand was good. cutoff explained to me that i wasnt supposed to call his turn bet, after all couldnt i see that the pot was protected. he also told me that he put me exactly on A weak kicker (maybe because i had been isolating him with that sort of hand all through this session).

anyway i thought it was a very interesting situation. as for the preflop reraise, ATo with the button i felt was simply too strong of a hand 7 handed against these guys to give up (if they had held 32s and 74o then they would have also raised and called preflop and im not exagerrating) and i had to 3 bet to force the blinds out. just calling wouldve definitely let both of the blinds in.

[mike l.]

"with 16 1/2 big bets (I hope I counted right) in the pot, it's more or less a must to call the last one too"

im calling 80 though. so the pot is really half that in big bets.

[SuCidEKInG]

nice semi-bluff re-raise by your opponent- makes it really tough for you to call there, but since you know the player to be very loose/aggressive it becomes a callable situation IMO

[cero_z]

Hi mike,
Very interesting post. Given the level of trickiness and looseness these guys showed here, I'd say ATo is a monster. I would've probably folded on the river, and been right proud of myself. Anyway, you read it perfectly. Incidentally, these games you post about seem close to perfect (given that the loose-passive game is not found at those limits very often).