Why do I suck at Party?

[WillMagic]

To introduce:

I've been playing poker for about three months now, and have developed into a very consistent winner at UltimateBet. I've probably cleared over $3000 in the past month at the site, playing mainly shorthanded 3/6 and 5/10 games.

At PartyPoker, I break even playing the same games.

And I know the players are worse at Party. They certainly are - even with the higher limits, at least half of the players have clearly never seen Sklansky's hand requirements. So with that, I should do better at party.

But I can't. No matter how hard I try at Party, I can't do better than break even. Meanwhile, I absolutely clean up at UB.

Is there something to the idea that I play better against better players?

There might be, in my case. Here are my thoughts:

1) I never limp. Never, under any circumstances. In shorthanded games, if I enter a pot, I enter it forcefully, hoping to get it down to heads up. I mean, if I'm in the blinds, i'll just call, but not anywhere else. Now, on UB this works very well. Rarely will I get more than two opponents in a pot, and I can usually take control and take it down if no one hits. On the other hand, at Party, I routinely am raising with two people behind me who have limped(probably a mistake without a very strong hand) - and even if I raise in first position, I get at least two and most likely three callers.

I'm not a particularly loose player - but I'm not particularly tight player, either. I'll raise with anything that deserves playing. At UB, this seems to keep everyone off balance, but at Party I feel like I'm the one spinning.

I think I need to start limping with suited connectors and small pairs - hands that I would normally throw away from an early position. Most pots would be unraised if it weren't for me.

2) I hate Party's interface. This is just a small thing, but I think it makes me angry when I play. It looks like someone took a dump on my computer screen and spread it around everywhere. UB's is nice and clean. This is just my opinion, I don't expect you to agree, but I think it adds to my tilt factor when I hate looking at the screen.

3) I get exasperated easily - and far more at Party. I get tired of raising from utg with KK, some idiot calling with JTo, and the flop coming AKQ. It's tiring. I mean, I know these people will pay me off in the long run...but I think I play very badly after taking a bad beat. It's probably just a maturity problem - I'm only 18. I definitely take fewer beats at UB. This means that the players are better -but then how come I win at UB?

My best explanation is that I play as well as the level I am at. If I'm playing with good players, I bring my game up a notch. If I'm playing with bad players, my own play falters.

Listening to all this, I think, why don't I just quit Party?
Well, I won 2 satellites, and I'm trying my darndest to get the maximum amount of extra chips Any suggestions and thoughts on this post and how to beat the Party games would be welcome.

WillMagic

[David Steele]

Just look at what you wrote:

....I've been playing poker for about three months now
.... playing mainly shorthanded
.... I never limp.

....I routinely am raising with two people behind me who have limped(probably a mistake without a very strong hand)

....I'll raise with anything that deserves playing


I think you know what you need to study.

D.

[MrGrob]

I can win there, but I HATE the software, and also hate to play lobotomy poker -- I can win there, but have bigger swings because the players suck, and I tend to get mad faster just because of the software (I have posted about this). I just think you need to learn to adjust to a lose passive table is all...then you can clean up, but expect slightly larger swings then at UB...the players at party are totally clueless...be aware of what this means...no semi-bluffing...bluffing...etc...they are too dumb to even know what you are doing, or just want to be sure you are not doing what you know you are doing, and will call you down with that 3rd pair with a 2 kicker...I also don't ever chase with big cards on that site, as I can't believe that can have a +EV there...just my opinion, but what do I know?

[Roy Munson]

Others on the forum may disagree, but it is unlikely that anyone can determine if they are a consistent winner after three months of play.

[Ed Miller]

I think you know what you need to study.

I don't get it. What do you mean?

[Instinct]

You just need to try and adjust to the different game conditions is what i am guessing. Probably you need to be less aggressive pre-flop and more aggressive post flop.

It sounds like you really haven't put enough hrs in to really have a good idea how you will do in long run anyway. But generally the worse the players the better you should do in long run but maybe you are starting off on a really bad swing. Once you have collected the max chips for the tourny you'll at least have a few thousand hands to look at. I have had a couple 100 BB down swings.

Instinct

[davidross]

I hated the software a little less once I got rid of the goofy people on the screen. Under options there is a tab for audio/visual and under that characters on/off. THe screen is much cleaner with it off. I could never read the board properly with the characters on. I would think I was heads up and there were actually 4 people still with cards (I'm playing multiple tables and need to read the board at a glance some times).

If you are a winning player you will beat the Party games eventually, but you need thousands of hands to overcome a possible short term fluctuations.

[JTrout]

2) I hate Party's interface
-
There's a thread on 2+2 somewhere about switching Empire's to Party's. It seemed, from reading, not too difficult. But still beyond my moronic computer intellect. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[mrbaseball]

Really? Wow! I can't wait to get home this afternoon and turn characters off! This is extremely good news /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[CrackerZack]

The 4 color deck rocks too.

[David Steele]

I meant that it is clear what is wrong from the quotes in his own post.

Loose low limit games are not won by some formula of constant aggression learned in a few months of short handed play.

He needs to learn how to play these games and forget about all the rest.

D.

[Rainbow Warrior]

[ChipWrecked]

I play low limit/buy-in HE. PokerTracker is showing me that I need better than one pair at showdown. Even top w/ high kicker is killing me.

[mrbaseball]

I find the place a lot more palatable now that I have those goofy characters turned off. My only question is what genious made the characters the default?

It's now much cleaner and easier to look at. Too much clutter before. Plus it was distracting from a player read perspective. I would associate a strong (or weak) player by his avatar rather than name which is bad. I'd think the guy with the orange hat is tricky when I should have been thinking player name xyz was tricky.

[ResidentParanoid]

The orange hat guy is a complete rock. It's the bald headed guy that gets out of line all the time. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MrDannimal]

Honestly, you shouldn't be paying much attention to names, either.

[mrbaseball]

"Honestly, you shouldn't be paying much attention to names, either."

Huh? You mean like playing in a vacuum with blinders on?

I have an excellent photgraphic type memory. When I get a read on someones play I remember it. When I have a name to associate it with I remember that too. How is this a problem?

[Bozeman]

Has anyone made(or thought about making) their own skin that displays the online game in a different window? I don't know how difficult this would be, but I would love it.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
"Honestly, you shouldn't be paying much attention to names, either."

Huh? You mean like playing in a vacuum with blinders on?

I have an excellent photgraphic type memory. When I get a read on someones play I remember it. When I have a name to associate it with I remember that too. How is this a problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you have a photographic memory is it safe to assume you have never before seen the word genius spelled correctly?

[mrbaseball]

"Since you have a photographic memory is it safe to assume you have never before seen the word genius spelled correctly? "

What's your problem guy? Yeah I noticed I didn't spell it correctly after it was too late to edit. What's your point?

Do you feel that ignoring your opponents play and playstyle and treating each and every one as a nameless and faceless clone of each other is the right way to approach online poker?

[The Bear]

Will,

Frankly, it sounds like you've got a lot of work to do on your game. Your positive results at UB in shorthanded games are no doubt being driven by your extreme aggression and ability to feel out players. If you enter a full low limit ring game w/ only these tools, you are in for a world of hurt. Even against awful players, you will get eaten alive if you don't adjust from your relentlessly aggressive style. Poker is not just about aggression. It's a complex game w/ subtle concepts that take time and study to sink in. If you learn and understand these things, and you are still running bad, then you can probably chalk it up to short-term variance. Right now, though, I would take Daniel Negreanu's advice and look within yourself for answers.

One very easy way to improve your game is to post hands that you think you played poorly. Have the veteran 2+2'ers evaluate your play. Reading what everyone here has to say has been a major step forward for me; you will surely have a similar experience.

You should also read the excellent thread started by Clarkmeister entitled: 5 Things LL Players Should Unlearn.

And as for the bad beats, all I can say is that it takes time to get used to them. Just keep thinking positively and eventually you'll be immune to the emotional effects.

Good luck in the PP Million.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
"Since you have a photographic memory is it safe to assume you have never before seen the word genius spelled correctly? "

What's your problem guy? Yeah I noticed I didn't spell it correctly after it was too late to edit. What's your point?

Do you feel that ignoring your opponents play and playstyle and treating each and every one as a nameless and faceless clone of each other is the right way to approach online poker?


[/ QUOTE ]

No actuallly I agree with the point of your post completely. It is just that it seemed ironic for someone to claim to have a photographic memory after spelling genuis in an unusual manner. After all I make plenty of spelling errors myself, however I never claimed to have a photographic memory either! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I was bored and thought it might seem funny. I apologize if I offended you.

[mrbaseball]

Spelling, memory, and intelligence are 3 totally unrelated subjects.

I wasn't trying to brag. But I remember things. Lots of things. I forget plenty too. But I seem to remember my poker opponents very well.

I will remember to limit my posting on these boards as well as it isn't worth dealing with the trolls.

[MrDannimal]

Sorry, you made it sound like you were looking at names first and then making reads off the names, not that you were reading players and saying "Self: remember, XYZ only raises pre-flop with AA or KK".

So I read you as saying "I see a guy with the name 'nvrfoldz' he's a fish", when that's not what you meant.

[lefty rosen]

I have cleared about 11,500 since last July playing low limit online poker. But when I played at party I couldn't believe how stupid the bad player was there and the multiple amounts of them, you have to beat the retardo by using the math of chasing against them ie call drawing hands in late position and smash outs, since they never fold top pair regardless of the kicker. Also don't try and bully the table with AK,AQ,AJ it doesnt work as they will call you down with any brick pair, once you play less aggressive you will be positive EV. I figured this out at Pacific and now I am about to clear 5000 out of there good luck......