a couple of $1-$2 hands at a B&M

[sdplayerb]

Viejas (and basically all the San Diego cardrooms) is now spreading NL.
I was playing $1-$2 after a $25 buyin tourney.
$50 was the max buy-in. I wish it was $100, but that was the deal. The rake was the blinds (as long as there was a flop), steep, but it is what it is.

Only been playing like 45 minutes and a young kid has been limping early a lot. He limps in UTG as does another player, from the button I make it $10 with AJ.
I know most of the players are loose, so I want to make them pay to play.
When it gets back to him it gets confusing when he puts some chips out and the dealer says it was a call, and the player says he meant to raise. Dealer said he acted too quick, and should have let him. So I put him on AA-QQ. We are headsup.
Flop come Jxx. He bets $9.
I think, ask how much he has, which was $30, I had about the same. He seemed calm counting them.
I fold.

About an hour later I have seen him limp in a few times with AA and KK, so I believe my read is right. But have seen him limp in with less also. I have $80, he is around $120. I think he has been very lucky with some big hands.
He limps from UTG+1, another young kid (his buddy) limps also.
I have AQs in the SB and make it $10 (i know he'll reraise with a big hand). He calls as does his friend.
Flop comes AK6 with A6 diamonds, I have no diamonds.
I bet $15. People had been underbetting a lot, and I want to double up. He calls, other kid folds.

I put him on AJ, AT or a flush draw.

flop was nothing scary, 8 maybe.
I bet $40. He takes a long time, and says let's gamble and calls.
Flop was the third diamond, but I only have $15 left and bet it (probably should have pushed in on the turn).
He calls.

He turns over A6, flopped two pair. No how I could put him on that for a big raise.
any thoughts?

Thanks

SD

[thetman]

I think you are overbetting your hands preflop and not letting up after the flop.

[Zag]

[ QUOTE ]
He takes a long time, and says let's gamble and calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know your top pair is no good when he says this.

[sdplayerb]

well all my chips are pretty much in at this point, so that doesn't help much.
And he took 2 minutes to call, so he could be on a flush draw (not smart, but possible with him..he did call for $8 more with A6) or AJ.

[sdplayerb]

So what would you have done? Made it $8?
$10 was a pot sized raise with two limpers.

[Paul2432]

On this hand I would just call pre-flop. AQ can be a very tricky hand to play especially out of position. On the flop I would bet perhaps 1.5 times the pot. If I get called, I would try to get to a showdown as cheaply as possible, probably folding if my opponent bets big.

Paul

[PlanoPoker]

A6 aside, would he reraise preflop with AK? If I was him I certainly wouldn't reraise you here, especially since the last time I reraised you, you successfully got away from the hand. I probably would have lost half my stack here, but not the $80. Since I don't have two pair or better here, and there is danger that he has AK, A8, A6, I'm going to bet an amount that a lesser hand, like AT, would be willing to call. A consistent $10 on the flop, turn, and river is fine. If he chooses to raise at any point, especially a later street, I think he very likely has me beat. He wouldn't make a move here unless he was feeling desperate or frisky, which I don't think is the case. Also he won't be reraising with A6 for fear of AA,KK,AK so this hand would have cost me $40.

[PlanoPoker]

Also, when the diamond comes on the river, after he makes a $40 call, you should check and call. You are almost always beat here. Your betting could easily mean AA,KK,AK, but he felt compelled to call. He has two pair or diamonds. If you check to him on the river, he will think you put him on diamonds. Since you only have $15 left though, he knows you aren't going to fold. He is still fearing AA,KK,AK so he checks it through and you save $15.

[sdplayerb]

Thank you, that does help.

I only think he would limp with AA, KK or a small hand in early position. I think he would have raised preflop with AK. So after my raise i was sure he did not have AA, KK or AK.

So, if you bet $10 on the flop what would you do on the turn had he called?
What would you have done if he made it $20?

After he called the $15, or if you ahd $10, do you only want to bet $10 if he is on the flush draw?

[sdplayerb]

My thinking here was if he has the flush, the $15 is getting in regardless as I am not folding for $15 with about $150 in the pot.

If he had AA, KK, AK, 66 he would have raised for the final $15 by now.

And from his long decision time I still had him on AJ or AT (A6 is still an awful preflop call as would have been A8).

So to me there was only three hands where he would check if I check, AJ, AT or A6, and still don't see A6. So I want to get in my last $15.

He almost folded his A6, and really should have as i likely had AA, KK or AK, the only hand he could beat was AQ.

Against good players I would not have played AQ out of position.

Thank you for the comments though, it has given me some to think about.

[Acesover8s]

On the AQ vs A6 hand I think it all depends on where you put him. If you think he's on diamonds, get it in on the turn. If you don't put him on diamonds I certainly would check the river, unless you know he'd make two big calls with one pair mediocre kicker. Although some players can make big reads and value bets here (and I do put you in this category), there are certainly some players who are unreadable due to playing so poorly.

Excellent fold on the first hand, its easy to 'change your read' when you catch a perfect flop.

[PlanoPoker]

If you were certain that he didn't have AA,KK,AK then your play is more justified. He got a lucky flop. Most players believe in making something near a pot sized bet with all of their stronger hands. I take a more varied approach depending on the hand.

If I bet $10 on the flop and he calls, I am going to feel happy about that and bet out $10 again on the turn. I'm just betting the strength of a hand that I can beat, like a small ace whose kicker didn't pair. He may not feel that $10 is enough for his two pair and raise me out, or he may call me down. Either way I'm better off. It is -EV to bet more than the value of your hand, unless you have reasonable certainty that he will fold.

To answer your other question, yes I would let him draw to the flush, if that is what he had. Between the odds of him not even having the flush, and the odds of the flush not coming, it seems better to get some value out of my AQ if it is in fact the best hand.

[Guy McSucker]

The rake was the blinds

Wow. That's crazy. The whole point of poker is that pots develop as people try to win the money that is already in the middle. If they're raking the blinds, there is no money in the middle to begin with. Why would you play?

I know the no-flop-no-drop policy changes this somewhat, but still. Oh my.

Guy.

[tewall]

I think your reasoning pre-flop makes perfect sense. He wants to gamble, so you make him pay to do so.

The flop was very good for you (apparently). With 2 diamonds, IMO you should make any diamond flushes pay, so bet the pot. A small bet gives the diamond flush draws the right price to call.

Given the relatively small stack sizes, I don't see how you can get away from losing all you chips here. He just got a very lucky flop, but if you consider all the possible hands he could have given the circumstances you described, I don't see how your pre-flop raise followed by a pot sized bet can be bad.

[sdplayerb]

I agree. If i didn't think the game was so good, i wouldn't play.
I probably raised the limpers to $8-$12 about 12 times. 11 times somebody stayed in.

I really never limped, because too much of the pot was put into the rake. If I was going to play, I made sure money was in there.

They are making bank though.

[Zag]

[ QUOTE ]
I really never limped, because too much of the pot was put into the rake. If I was going to play, I made sure money was in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a brilliant point that hadn't occurred to me. But now that you say it, it makes perfect sense.

[tang]

I've played at this game before. I was at the $1-$2 table right after the tourny one night (2 weeks ago?) and went on a disgusting rush of cards. I was up about 4+ racks in an hour or so, I was the younger guy with black hair (my friend with redhair sat next to me for about 20 minutes before I took his roll and we left :-) ) Were you at the table?

The table was so loose everytime I had a big hand there was a $5-$10 raise in front of me and I just pushed in each time, each time getting called. I played all pocket pairs and only played AXs & 78s+ on the button for no raise or very very small raise. I pushed all my big hands. People still thought I was a maniac. God I need to be there tomorrow night.

[sdplayerb]

No, the only time i've played there was last saturday.
I was the main one doing the raising as I got AK and AQ a ton (i know AQ ain't that great). KK once, bet $10..two callers. A high, so I was done (winner showed his A).

Glad you agree how easy it is.
I'll probably play not this saturday but the next.

You said one night..do you mean sycuan? Viejas is a 10am tourney.

[tang]

yeah the days kinda blend together now... morning game, I find they usually hold the game right after the NL tourny most of the time with 1-2 and 2-4. Despite the rake the game is worth it without question. I made very little raises in the game except with AK, KK, AA. Everything else I just tried to hit a flop or I was gone (never bluffed which is hard for me). I saw a 5 way all-in each for 50 bucks with an ace high flop and two rags. Winner showed pocket Queen's and it was good.