Playing no limit w/ amateurs

[PAUL-IN]

i played in a freakish no-limit holdem game. blinds were 10 CENTS-20 CENTS, with a 10 cent ante. but, after about 6 hours, there was roughly 1000 dollars on the table, with about 10 players total..but that isn't the freakish part.

i was there from the get-go, and it all started with small $1.00 raises preflop, and the majority of the players were amateurs, calling with J6 off, 92 off, etc...the best hand naturally in a family pot USUALLY didn't win; (ie someone would river trips, catch runner runner flush.) what i'm wondering is, is it right to "jump on the bandwagon", and play nearly everything to the river to catch????? CLEARLY the answer is NO, but as we all know, hands like AA, KK, and AKsuited is much weaker when it's impossible to thin the field, even with a major preflop raise.

There is merit in what Sammy Farha says about beating amateurs, in that you need a strong hand to beat them, but how would you play a crazy game like this? is it right to mix it up with any suited/any connected, pairs, etc? or just play super tight?

i'm just confused because if you have top pair, top kicker, betting strong all the way, and getting 7 callers to the river, only to have someone reraise you all inwhen the bottom card pairs, what does a player do? play only the "complete" hands, like full houses, flushes, and straights? or should i resort to sucking out on them just like they do to everyone else?

strange game, and I won money for a while, but got cracked so many times. i raised with 99, preflop, for instance, flop comes Jd 9d 8h, turn comes a Qd, three callers to my bet, and river comes a 4d, someone bets all in with Td2s, another calls with 3s6d, and i fold my set. i was beat on the turn, but he bets all in with a Td high?? this sounds so juicy, yet it WASN'T!!! help!

[Al_Capone_Junior]

With such large stakes compared to the blinds, I'd jump on the bandwagon and play LOTS of hands. If the betting is small, but someone will call a large raise later, draw to lots of hands that you catch some piece of the flop with. For instance, if the pot was $5, and someone with a huge stack bet 50c into it, I'd call with as little as a backdoor draw, hoping to catch something that would allow me to break the bettor.

With your best hands preflop, keep making LARGE raises. In a tough game, I might not do so with hands like AA or KK, because I'd like to have at least one person give me action. In a very loose game, I'll quit getting fancy and just pop it big right away, sure I'll probably still get more callers than I wanted anyway. I'll generally follow up these large preflop raises with an even larger bet on the flop, within reason (obviously certain flops suck for certain hands, in that case be willing to give up). One thing about playing this way tho is that you MUST make these big raises with more than just AA and KK. I'd say with anything TT-AA or AK to raise 10x the blind, maybe even more, especially if they'll CALL more.

It seems like you just got unlucky last time. Try again tho. The value in these games is getting chasers to call large bets, bets that are far too big to give them anything near the right pot odds. Sure, they suck out now and then, but if you keep getting them to call large bets while you are ahead, it must catch up sooner or later. Unless you just have a spectacularly bad string of luck, it's a lot more likely to be sooner in NL.

al

[happyjaypee]

Al's reply pretty much sums it.

I played in such a game once. Was a 6 handed 25c/50c NLHE game whit everyone starting at 100$. It was my 1st game whit those guys and I was shoked to see 2x200$ rebuys in the 1st orbit! We reached 1800$ on the table. Was incredible... They were calling and chasing whit undercards in hope to hit a pair...

One thing I regret though in that clueless crowded game was to ever fold preflop. One player (the deeper pockets and worst player) was there to gamble and was taking offense that I was moron enought to fold before even seeing the 3 first cards. (I was already playing extremmely loose. suited 2-gaper were good enough to call a raise for me) But instead of just limping all hands and then take a decision on the flop, I pointed out to him the "first 3cards" were called a "flop". /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Play everything.
Implied odds rules.
Chase backdoor draws often to underbets in multiway pots.
Bring money. (You'll face bigger swings but bigger wins too)
Keep a playfull gambler image.


-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[crockpot]

when the money is this deep in no limit, my best advice for someone looking for strategic help is to play quite tight, sticking to hands with huge implied odds. this basically amounts to pocket pairs, suited connectors and suited aces.

of course, huge implied odds can mean you should play loose too, but the problem is that it's hard for many people who are not used to these games to adjust and know when to turn a hand loose. if you are capable of this, then you can play a ton of hands profitably, perhaps 40%.

an important point is that hands like top pair can get you into so much trouble here that i would consider mucking AKo in this game, depending on how easy it was to read the other players. since they're capable of going all in on a ten high flush with four diamonds on board, i'm going to say they're not all that easy to read.

[PAUL-IN]

ty all.

yes all in all it was fun but crazy. for a while i played super tight, but that ususally didn't work so i changed it up and started playing all sorts of hands. but it's tough when i have absolutely NO READ on anyone's hands, preflop, or post flop. i'd agree with y'all-huge implied odds make gutshots profitable....i just happened to hit NONE of my draws....just unlucky i guess.

[Paul2432]

[ QUOTE ]
strange game, and I won money for a while, but got cracked so many times. i raised with 99, preflop, for instance, flop comes Jd 9d 8h, turn comes a Qd, three callers to my bet, and river comes a 4d, someone bets all in with Td2s, another calls with 3s6d, and i fold my set. i was beat on the turn, but he bets all in with a Td high?? this sounds so juicy, yet it WASN'T!!! help!

[/ QUOTE ]

The above hand is a perfect example of the bet large when you are ahead strategy described by Al. You do not say what you did on the flop, but I am going to guess you tried to slow play it based on the fact that the 63o hand was around to see the turn. If I am correct, then you made a mistake. You should have bet perhaps 1.5 times the pot on the flop. Whenyou flop a set in a multi-way hand with a coordinated board you must bet big to protect your hand.

BTW, if I am wrong and you did bet big on the flop, you must be doing something else wrong. It is inconceivable that you would not win all the chips after six hours against players who would call a large bet with 63o on a board of Jd 9d 8h.

Paul

[Ray Zee]

you need to learn how to play past the flop. on the two hands you gave you also gave away your money. playing very tight will help you as you need bigger hands to win against so many people.

[ThaSaltCracka]

my home game of NLHE is usually a fairly loose game as well. MY advice would be to play almost anything in late posistion with no raise in front of you, and if you hit a hand on the flop, something like a set or top pair or top two pair, bet to protect that hand, make them pay to draw, the big raise will make them think about it too. Honestly if you can afford it muscle them around. When they don't hit there flush or straight bet into them.