Debatable NL hand

[KaptainKangoroo]

I've had a long discussion over this hand. What do you guys think? He said I was wrong for calling the turn... I put him on stealing the pot, since it was not a pot bet(note: UB has the little "bet pot" button that everyone LOVES to hit hit hit...). He also said i should bet the river, but I figured he could be on diamonds, or even an A himself, so betting would make me loose more money than i could...
lotta arguments, lets see what you think?



Getting Hand History Information...
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #432294-1485 at Shiraz (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 19/Sep/03 13:49:42

Kapt Kangoroo is at seat 0 with $55.40.
awobball44 is at seat 1 with $12.15.
divinetiger is at seat 3 with $63.25.
jabbo57 is at seat 4 with $11.10 (sitting out).
wakefield is at seat 6 with $19.85.
h20go is at seat 7 with $46.
Stepinfoo is at seat 9 with $9.15.
The button is at seat 6.

h20go posts the small blind of $.25.
Stepinfoo posts the big blind of $.50.

Kapt Kangoroo: Kc 2s
awobball44: -- --
divinetiger: -- --
wakefield: -- --
h20go: -- --
Stepinfoo: -- --

Pre-flop:

Kapt Kangoroo folds. awobball44 raises to $1.75.
divinetiger re-raises to $3. wakefield folds. h20go
folds. Stepinfoo folds. awobball44 calls.

Flop (board: Qd 7s 4h):

awobball44 goes all-in for $9.15. divinetiger folds,
showing Ks Ah. awobball44 is returned $9.15
(uncalled).



Hand #432294-1485 Summary:

$.30 is raked from a pot of $6.75.
awobball44 wins $6.45.
----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #432294-1479 at Shiraz (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 19/Sep/03 13:45:29

Kapt Kangoroo is at seat 0 with $48.75.
awobball44 is at seat 1 with $25.
divinetiger is at seat 3 with $54.65.
jabbo57 is at seat 4 with $11.60.
wakefield is at seat 6 with $19.35.
h20go is at seat 7 with $47.50.
Stepinfoo is at seat 9 with $11.65.
The button is at seat 6.

h20go posts the small blind of $.25.
Stepinfoo posts the big blind of $.50.

Kapt Kangoroo: Qs Ad
awobball44: -- --
divinetiger: -- --
jabbo57: -- --
wakefield: -- --
h20go: -- --
Stepinfoo: -- --

Pre-flop:

Kapt Kangoroo calls. awobball44 calls. divinetiger
calls. jabbo57 folds. wakefield folds. h20go
calls. Stepinfoo checks.

Flop (board: Kd 5s Qd):

h20go checks. Stepinfoo checks. Kapt Kangoroo bets
$1. awobball44 calls. divinetiger folds. h20go
folds. Stepinfoo calls.

Turn (board: Kd 5s Qd Jh):

Stepinfoo checks. Kapt Kangoroo bets $.85.
awobball44 raises to $4. Stepinfoo folds. Kapt
Kangoroo calls.

River (board: Kd 5s Qd Jh Td):

Kapt Kangoroo checks. awobball44 checks.



Showdown:

Kapt Kangoroo shows Qs Ad.
Kapt Kangoroo has Qs Ad Kd Jh Td: straight, ace high.
awobball44 mucks cards.
(awobball44 has Js Tc.)


Hand #432294-1479 Summary:

$.60 is raked from a pot of $13.50.
Kapt Kangoroo wins $12.90 with straight, ace high.
----------------------------------------------------------------

[Zag]

Sorry. This format is too hard to read. Consider that any note is only written once, but read many times. Therefore, it is worth significant effort writing in order to make reading it easier and faster, because any savings reading is multiplied by the number of people who do so.

Also, it is considered poor form to use the actual screen names of your opponents, because they might participate here and be embarassed.

We've all done it, and gotten this same lecture, so don't feel bad. Just make your hand histories more readable in the future, if you want to get significant responses.

[tewall]

The .85 bet is really strange. What's with that?

Whether you should fold to his raise (I'm assuming you're KK and he's awob) is dependent on how your opponent plays.

Without knowledge of how your opponent plays, if he raises the pot, then with a hand which could only beat a bluff you would need to call 1 in 3 times to keep your opponent from making a profit just by bluff raising. In this particular case he raised less than the pot, you have a straight draw, and you have a hand which can beat some hands which are not bluffs, all of which are reasons to call.

In addition, if you have reason to believe your opponent is bluffing, or if he is likely to bluff raise more than say 1 in 3 times, then you could call on that basis alone.

On the river it depends on how likely he is to call your bet if you bet vs. the odds of his betting if you check. Since he took the lead against you on the turn, checking seems reasonble to me.

[crockpot]

a big question here is whether your opponent is the type to follow through on a semi-bluff with a bluff bet on the river. if he is, and you do not intend to call a river bet, then you probably have a fold here. if he won't bet the river without a powerhouse that has you beat, i think you can call.

[Franky4Fingers]

My friend Kapt Kangoroo was UTG with AQo. He had just recently sat down at a .25-.50 $50 buy in no limit table and at most had played 2 orbits. He starts this hand with $48.75 and his primary opponent who had also just sat down has $25.

I think playing AQo out of position in a small stakes online no limit game is questionable. I also don't like hands like AJo, KQo, KJo, or QJo. Playing these hands puts you in situations where you are risking large bets when you are only slightly ahead and it is difficult to read your opponent because you are playing online.

Onto the hand.

7 handed. He calls UTG with Ad Qs. The next two players call as well as the small blind and the big blind checks.

5 players.

Pot is $2.50.

Flop is Kd 5s Qd.

Both blinds check and Kapt bets $1. The player on his left calls as does the big blind.

Pot is $5.50.

Turn is the Jh. Kapt bets out $.85. Why? Player on his left raises to $4.00. Big blind folds and he calls. When he called he called an additional $3.15 into a $10.35 pot. What do you put his opponent on on the turn that he is ahead of. And if he is behind what is he drawing to to win? The 2 remaining queens? Aces or Tens? Having the Ad helps but what if the 10d falls on the river. I don't think his opponent is on the flush draw given his play but its not a hand I would rule out and when his opponent bet 2/3 the pot I would start to think I was behind with second pair top kicker. I would be worried about hands like QJ, A10, 910d. I think the call is marginal at best.

River is 10d.

I had suggested that a pot or half pot bet on the river might get his opponent to fold an ace and save him from splitting the pot. So far he has played his hand like he has the flush draw. Betting twice the minimum on the flop and under betting the turn then calling the turn raise. The river semi bluff suggestion is just that a suggestion but I definitely think the best play on the turn was to fold.