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View Full Version : Interesting Flop Play by a Top Pro


bruce
09-18-2003, 05:37 PM
30-60 holdem. A strong pro open raises on the button. He is one of the best limit players around and normally plays higher. Small blind, a tough player familiar with the pro, reraises and the pot is heads up. Pro has K9o as I was seated directly behind him talking to him.

Flop comes 9s 7h 2d

Small blind checks and button also checks.

Turn 9s 7h 2d 2h

Small blind bets and the button calls.

River 9s 7h 2d 2h 4s

Small blind checks, button bets, and small blind calls.
The button obviously wins, and the small blind disgustedly
flings his AQ of hearts into the muck.

I asked the pro why he didn't bet the flop or raise the
turn, but since the small blind was sitting right next to us he told me he would talk to me later about this hand.

Comments appreciated.

Bruce

Dynasty
09-18-2003, 05:49 PM
The basic reasoning seams obvious- to avoid getting check-raised on the flop and to induce overcard bluffs on the later streets.

If the Small Blind's 3-betting standards are fairly high (pairs/big cards) then I would often play the hand like this. Often, the Button is way ahead with his opponent drawing to overcards or the Button himself is drawing to five outs against a bigger pair. You're losing one big bet on the flop when you are behind and get check-raised. You only win one small bet when you are ahead and get called.

Tommy Angelo
09-18-2003, 06:05 PM
I play iffy top-pairs like that all the time from the button against a solid threebettor from the blinds. Checking behind on the flop, or turn, is the best way to reach a happy blend of lose-lease-or-win-most, IMO

Boopotts
09-18-2003, 06:14 PM
I'd guess that the following factors played into the pro's thinking.

1) The hand was heads-up, which means the outcome was fairly well defined upon the flop.

2) The pro, at this point, was likely committed to showing his hand down.

The second factor is, I think, important. If the pro had something like Ah 4h, he might bet the flop and turn hoping to get a better ace to fold-- however, if he ran into resistance, he'd likely muck. But, when you have to show the hand down, and it's a good but not great hand (i.e., one that could be beaten by one of your opponent's likely holdings), if often makes sense to play passively if the pot is shorthanded. It's an extension of the S&M idea that one should just check and call if you flop top pair after having been three bet pre-flop, although I don't remember if S&M make exceptions in HFAP for those spots where the pot is being contested multi way.

MMMMMM
09-18-2003, 08:46 PM
I'll disagree with Tommy and Dynasty here and say that I think this hand should be bet in the absence of any unusual factors (unusual would be say a tell, or if the SB is exceptionally tricky, or if the SB has a proclivity to reraise preflop in this spot usually only with high pairs--a very uncommon trait for a tough player).

Most often the SB's re-raising hands will be high cards not high pairs due to the card combinations. I don't think you want to be giving free cards to AQ and the like. If the SB has a high King he is drawing to his kicker, which you love. If you get check-raised by a bigger pair you very likely have 5 outs or he might even be CR-ing a hand like AK. If the SB holds a smaller pair such as 88 and is planning to call you down he is drawing to 2 outs (and longshot backdoors) which you have to love.

If you bet the flop he is coming with any two high cards or he is not a good player.

Also why didn't the SB bet the flop himself? That is pretty odd IMO and is perhaps cause for suspicion but you can take it to as many levels as you want and only end up outthinking yourself sometimes. The SB is tough and familiar with our hero so you can't take his check to mean anything for sure. If the SB CR's with a AK or AQ (which he might well have been planning to do) our hero has to gain.

So why did the pro on the button check the flop? Damn good question if you ask me.

MMMMMM
09-19-2003, 05:24 AM
I agree that sometimes a check along the way somewhere makes sense and thus you can get that mix you speak of.

I just think in this particular situation the flop is crying out for a bet. Depending on the Turn or River I might slow down a bit. For instance if an Ace hit the Turn it might be a good time to check it back, then call or bet on the River.