Question re Super/System

I always see Brunson's "Super/System" listed as one of the great poker books. But after each rave, there is always a disclaimer that says that this book was written in 1978 and is now out of date in some areas. My question: Why don't they update it? This has been done with several other poker classics, like Sklansky's Hold 'em Poker and S&M's HPFAP. Why don't they update the parts of Super/System that need it?

I have heard a rumor that Brunson wished he hadn't put out the book, because after it came out the games got tougher. But in light of all the books out now, clinging to this excuse would seem rather silly and paranoid if it is true. Is this indeed the reason it has never been updated? Seems like it could sell many more copies if a new edition came out, and at 50 bucks a pop, he could make a lot more off royalties than he could at the tables, weaker competition or not.

Tim

100.00 a pop when it first came out....gl

Doyle plays $3000-6000, I don't think he needs the money.

Just because he makes millions of dollars doesn't mean he wouldn't mind a little more. Why do you think athletes go on strike when they are making millions a year, even more on avg. than Doyle makes? It's because they want MORE. Everyone does, I don't care if he makes millions a year. If he could make even more by putting out an updated edition, don't tell me he would try to give it back. Would you?

"Just because he makes millions of dollars doesn't mean he wouldn't mind a little more."


I'm sure he would like a little more, but that's all you get relatively speaking for Doyle if he was to redo Super/System, and it is a lot of work to rewrite a book like that, perhaps a couple of years for several people.

I know someone who is a bank executive and makes something on the order of $300,000 a year. Now, I think we'd all agree that this is pretty good, but she'd make even more money if she also got a part-time job at the video store after work. I think that, financially, this is roughly equivalent to what you're suggesting that Doyle do. Super/System was a Herculean task, and updating it would be another Herculean task. Doyle spent a lot of time on the book, and he got a great deal of help from five other experts to make the book what it was. One of those was Sklansky, and I think his rates have gone up since then. /images/smile.gif He'd have to completely redo the limit hold'em section, because the structure of the game has changed, and the way people play it has changed. The seven-card high-low section would have to be expanded to include the eight-or-better version that is now prevalent in casinos. I've never played in California, but I think lowball has changed over the years. The no-limit hold'em section could stand to be edited (it's a lot to wade through). He'd also have to get some new experts to do the sections on Omaha/Eight and Pot-Limit Omaha, maybe a section on Pot-Limit Hold'em, maybe something on Pineapple. I think that a complete book would have to include a section on tournaments. While he's at it, he can get rid of the excessive bold type and italics. All-in-all, it would be more trouble than it was worth to him, even though he could sell quite a few copies for $100 apiece.


Incidentally, athletes don't necessarily go on strike because they want more money. I don't really follow the other sports that closely, but the last baseball players strike was because they wanted to keep what they had, not because they wanted more. If they go on strike again, it will be because the owners are trying to eliminate jobs.

I didn't realize it would take that long. I guess I can see the point if it would be that hard. I thought maybe another reason why he hadn't redone it is I heard someone say that one of the authors of a section in it had died. Don't know if that is true or not. Well that's too bad, I am a big fan of poker books as well as the game, but if it would take him that long I see the point.


Tim

Andy B,

I see your point, I hadn't thought of it that way. Maybe the reason is I don't own a copy, and had always been hesitant to spend the money because everyone said it was outdated when I asked them. I also don't play anything but low to mid limit hold 'em, and don't forsee myself doing more than that in the forseeable future. Do you guys think it is still worth the money for someone like me to buy it, given those factors? That is always what held me back, and I didn't realize it would be such a giant job to edit. I guess to redo something like that you'd have to do it for reasons other than monetary. Well I am a disappointed fan but your comments make sense to me given it would be such a huge undertaking. Thanks for the info.


Tim

Even though it is outdated, I don't think you can go too far wrong with buying the book. You have to either adjust or disregard stuff in the limit hold'em section, but the rest of the book is good. The no-limit section is a must read, even if you only use it to identify mistakes opponents make who have read it. (Credit to Natedogg on this point.) You get to see how an excellent player thinks about poker, get input from other excellent players, and get to see how some games you probably won't get to play work. I wouls shell out the $$ at some point.

`The no-limit section is a must read, even if you only use it to identify mistakes opponents make who have read it. (Credit to Natedogg on this point.) '


Not sure I get what you mean here. Could you elaborate please.Thanks. (I just bought the book, and am about to read it.)


Dirk

There are a fair number of NL players out there whose main resources is S/S. Many of them havn't deviated very far from the play Doyle suggests. Its useful to know what that play is.

Joey Hawthorne died although I've heard Mike Caro contributed a lot to that section. In any case anybody spending a lot of time on a lowball section to a poker book these days isn't too worried about money.