Your move?

[James282]

Typical 5-10 game at the Taj. Not sure if you 2+2ers classify this as low or mid-stakes, but it was played like a mid-stakes game so here's the scenario...tell me your call and what you think they had.

dealt Q /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif in the cutoff. loose-aggressive UTG raises(he has raised JTo, KK, JJ, AKo, 99, and QTs from what we have seen so far, and 3 hands that never made it to showdown in about 2 hours). folded to me, i 3 bet to try and isolate him since the button and blinds are relatively tight. folded to the big blind who says "cap it." flop comes 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif2/images/graemlins/heart.gif big blind bets out, loose aggressive merely calls, i raise(questioning this play now, regardless of results), big blind calls, UTG calls. Turn is the 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif for a board of
3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif Big blind checks, UTG bets out, I remember I have a club and call it, figuring I might be drawing to the clubs, a Q, or have the best hand against A 10 or such. big blind calls. River comes 6 of spades. Big blind checks, UTG bets and we all call...read the hand?

[Barry]

You're at least in 2nd place, if not 3rd. You say the blinds are tight, when the BB caps it, it's likely that he has AA or KK. His call of your flop raise means he may want to get in a checkraise on the turn. That plan was thwarted when the club came on the turn. UTG might have a flush or he's doing the "I'm going to call, so I might as well bet the scare card" move with TP.

[Paluka]

I think you could very easily have the winner here. The bb could easily have AK with a club, and the very aggressive player could have a wide range of hands. I think it is unlikely anyone actually has a flush.

[Philuva]

I am not sure how you can assume that he is at least in 2nd. Unless the BB is tighty mcwhitey, there is a good chance you are still leading.

Since you described the BB as tight I would have raised the turn hoping to get him to fold an over pair with no club in case UTG holds something like top pair with the Ac.

[Barry]

Tight blinds, BB caps, likely AA or KK, our hero is behind that whether or not UTG has a flush.

Having said that, likely is not certainly, I'd call it down too.

[GoBrowns]

No one would put the BB on AK clubs? I guess thats not normally the way one plays their nut flush on the turn, but its a pretty profitable way. He could've bet out on the flop on the flush draw, decided not to 3 bet to drive out his UTG customer. Then, bet out on the turn hoping for callers, the bet being more proftitable then check-raising, and possibly causing everyone to fold (the turn bet scares no one, the turn raise makes almost everyone crap in their pants).

I also like the explanation of a previous poster, that he meant to check-raise the turn with AA or KK, but was thwarted by the 3rd club. I guess he could also be doing with jacks.

In this situation, even though most reads seem to have you beat, I dunno if I could lay down the queens. I might consider raising him on the turn, hoping to drive out a better hand, or at least slow him down, with the intention of folding to a 3 bet, or, if no 3 bet, checking the river and taking a free showdown.

[Barry]

So James...

How did it all come out?

[James282]

They both turned over pocket aces and i showed it down to show I wouldn't go folding an overpair to the board...since the one guy likes to bluff people off hands. Sorry it took me a while to respond! -James

[Coilean]

Results notwithstanding, I would raise on the turn. I'm not ready to put anyone on a flush, and the BB checking the turn + UTG not raising the flop makes me think you have a pretty decent shot at the best hand, plus possibly a good club draw if you are behind. If both of them call the raise, then you might want to check the river, otherwise I would continue betting (or fold on the turn to a 3-bet from the BB).

[Rushmore]

I've already read the results, but...

You should not be questioning your flop raise. I'd raise here 100% of the time.

On the turn, you're in a spot between calling and raising to try to knock out what you should be reading for a possible pair of kings or aces. I believe the call is right, followed by the call on the river, because this gets you a showdown, whereas a raise on the turn, followed by a call of a reraise and a fold on the river if you miss your flush doesn't get you to the showdown.

[Tyler Durden]

Usually, when you have an overpair, it's a good idea to raise on one or even both of the expensive streets.

[Barry]

Do you remember which 1 had the Ac? I would suspect it was UTG.

I won't argue that the flop raise was incorrect, but I am very surprised that others want to put in a raise on the turn.

I think that it is highly likely that we're behind here and it's 50/50 that BB has a better club than us. A turn raise has very little chance of knocking out either the BB or UTG, so why put more money in the pot as an underdog? I know this sounds very Chiaffone/Brier-like, but I want to get to the showdown cheaply here. Maybe not, they might suggest a fold here.

There is a good section in HPFAP about playing when it's 3 bets before the flop.