Misplayed Overpair?

[ML4L]

Hey all,

NLHE, 1/2 Paradise. I'm the big stack with $335. EP (who is a semi-knowledgable and semi-decent player, but is often a little too loose-aggressive) raises to $8. LP, very loose and fairly passive, calls. I get K/images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif in the BB and reraise to $40. EP calls, as does LP. Flop comes:

Q /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I bet $120, EP folds, and LP raises $70 more all-in. I call.

I think that I made one mistake on this hand. What mistakes, if any, do y'all think that I made?

ML4L

[1800GAMBLER]

I'd say bet around $80 on the flop and fold to the reraise all in from a passive player. But i'm sat here analysing the hand, chances are in the hand i'd be pot betting then flipping a coin as to call the all in for the $70 more.

I'd say the mistake is a -EV bet on the flop due to the amount. Plus your $70 call if you _know_ you are behind but that's only marginal.

[ML4L]

Hey JayP,

Thanks for the response. The second that I was done with the hand, I thought of your QQ post from a few days ago and could not BELIEVE that I didn't apply what I had learned. On this flop, the proper thing to do would be to bet $60 or $70 (you said $80; close enough...) and to fold to a re-raise all-in. Neither of those players is going to make a move on me, and I don't think that either would call a $60 bet with a bare ace.

ML4L

[1800GAMBLER]

Hey.

I just reread my QQ thread before reading this, strange. Paired board is a flop were you are surely only going to get action when beaten for high amounts. None paired board i seem to run into a lot of bad plays even at the $500 buy in, were TPTK will raise my flop potbet after i raise preflop.

I think this could just be against me though since once i have raised preflop i lead out around 90% of the time almost regardless of cards. So i can see why i am getting raised a lot when i have these overpairs, makes play a little tougher. Almost impossible to sperate the players who are watching the play from the ones who aren't.

On an underpair board though with an overpair i'm more often than not still going to pot sized value bet since it's going to be rare i run into a better hand but i'm leaving myself open for the good player with balls to take a shot at me, even more so after i have lead out on the flops so much. The games are loose enough to have top pair call potsized and more too. My games are 60% player/flop though.

2ndly on the underpaired board i want to throw some chips in there to kill any implied odds when they improve to 2 pair over the next 2 cards since to a innocent looking card i'm not really going to fold.

Sidenote, just thinking while typing now. I often bluff the paired board, since it's a less outs flop, instead of the usual 9 outs (i'm not really taking about outs; 9 cards that hit the flop - i.e. QQQ KKK AAA on a QKA flop) it's just 5 cards. Arguements made for bottom pair doesn't call, true. So making this relevant, it's not really a value betting board, the 2 pair probably will call a flop bet since the player probably thinks trips never gets bet, but for a large amount most players should be able to hand read you there.

Sidenote 2, i remember argueing with a player who said always pot betting was the correct way. At the time i couldn't really think up many arguements against it, but in NL you can go from making a +EV bet to a -EV bet just on bet size. So that alone is a reason.

I check the river too much in loose NL games still though. :|

Oh well, hope a king fell /images/graemlins/laugh.gif