Poll - Best Contemporary Role Model for African-American Males

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[adios]

[Rushmore]

I refuse to answer because I am a coward.

[MMMMMM]

C'mon, be a man and vote for Sharpton like I did--I couldn't help it and I'm surprised you can even resist the temptation /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'll submit a more serious vote once I learn a little more about some of the candidates, but for now...

Sorry Tom I really couldn't help it

[Boris]

What exactly is the motivation for this poll? Do I need to have a white role model?

Speaking from my own experience, my role models are not any one that you would know. What I mean is that none of them are public figures. Why do you think black people should have a "best role model"? Who would you like black people to model themselves after? What crap.

[John Cole]

Okay, here's a write in vote: Alice Walker. Gee, Tom, why only men?

[adios]

If it's crap do a simple search on google regarding black leaders and black role models. Perhaps the pole could have been worded better. Anyway here's a link where you feel the subject is full of crap too:

Bell Program Harnesses African-American Mentors for Kids (http://www.bellnational.org/Dorchester%20Reporter%202_20_03.htm)

I don't know the statistics but if memory serves much higher proportion of Afro-American households without a father exist in this country.

[snakehead]

the reason for this offensive poll must be very ugly.

[Boris]

So what's your point? That we should collectively decide which prominent black person should serve as the prototype daddy for all the poor fatherless black boys in this country?

[scalf]

/images/graemlins/frown.gifhey; where is mike tyson????

[MMMMMM]

Better a Prototype Daddy than a Puff Daddy, anyway.

[adios]

It boggles my mind why you'd find this poll offensive. First of all the NAACP presents an award every year entitled "Role Model of the Year." Do you find this offensvie? A link to what House Minority leader remarked about NAACP president Kweisi Mfume upon is departure from Congress to lead the NAACP:

In Recognition of Congressman Kweisi Mfume (http://www.house.gov/pelosi/kweisi.htm)


From the link:

"Kweisi Mfume is the best possible role model"

A link to an article in the Guardian:
Positive Thinking (http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,606627,00.html)

From the article:

"The prime minister is right to hold up Colin Powell as a positive black role model and he could do the same for Condoleezza Rice too."


People are writing books about positive black role models:

Our Common Ground (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/051788075X/002-0402804-0080027?v=glance)

A sample commentary about the book:

"Original photos and narratives of positive Black role models who are changing America make for an uplifting and exceptional title which shows how ordinary people are living extraordinary lives."

About a book co-authored by none other than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar:

Black Profiles in Courage (http://www.harpercollins.com/catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0380813416)

A quote from the synopsys of the book:

"In this ideal introduction to black history, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar examines the lives of heroic African Americans and offers their stories as inspiring examples for young people, who too rarely encounter positive black role models in history books or in the media."

A report from the Indiana Family and Social Services Administration:

Indiana Commission on the Social Status of Black Males (http://www.in.gov/fssa/icssbm/recommend/)

From the report:

"Problem Statement:

There is a significant shortage of Black role models, especially male teachers, in the public school system."

An article about black underachievement in London Schools:

Crisis of black underachievement in London schools (http://www.irr.org.uk/2003/may/ak000015.html)

An excerpt from the article regarding remarks made by Dr Walter Massey, President of Morehouse College (Atlanta, USA):

"there was a lack of black role models - only 1.5 per cent of teachers were black men"

An article from a Canadian lawmaker regarding black role models:
The Importance of Black Role Models in the next Millenium (http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/doliver/Speeches/E960330.asp)

An excerpt from the article:

" Role models are the basis of inspiration, and they play a critical role in achieving success. They sustain us through difficult times by showing us that, if we are determined, if we persevere, that we, too, can achieve out goals in life."

Ohio State has a graduate level course in it's department of African American and African Studies:

BLACK ROLE MODELS: RACISM AND SEXISM (http://aaas.ohio-state.edu/graduateProgram/graduatecourses.cfm)

An article in the California educator:

Real school reform requires minority community input (http://www.cta.org/CaliforniaEducator/v5i9/diff_real)

A commentary about black role models from the article:

"African Americans said that public education will improve if community members become more involved in their children's education, and that students need more black role models at school sites."

From the US department of the Interior:

Africa Initiatives of the U.S. Department of the Interior (http://www.doi.gov/intl/potusdoi.htm)

A description of one of the programs regarding black role models:

"Environmental Education Training for Urban Youth. The goal of the project, which was developed by the South African Wilderness Leadership School and South Africa National Parks, is to empower community-based black role models and facilitate training of black disadvantaged youth and teachers in environmental education. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has provided $50,000 for this training."

The fact of the matter is that positive black role models are seen by many as an important part in the development of black youth. I suppose that one could say that why not just say role models. To that I would say that IMO the prevailing attitude among our leaders and academics is that positive black role models for black youth have a more significant impact on their development. One can only wonder if I would have posted a list of caucasions as role models for blacks what people would have said. Save your sanctimonious bull sh*t about being offended for some other issue and some other poster.

[Boris]

The reason your post is so ignorant is because you simply asked a question in a complete vacuum and then listed some notable black people as alternatives. This isn't the Academy Awards. If you're going to ask these sorts of questions then you have to provide some sort of context for the question and then you have to provide some personal credibility and expertise on the issue so that we might feel comfortable that you provided good alternatives.

I went to the BELL site you linked. It seems they are looking for academically successful black people to help take a more active role in the black community. It didn't say anything about idolizing media celebrities and it didn't say anything about finding the "best" role model.

[adios]

"If you're going to ask these sorts of questions"

What sorts of questions, please elaborate.

" then you have to provide some sort of context for the question"

I would think the context is obvious but perhaps not. The issue is positive role models for black males.

"and then you have to provide some personal credibility and expertise on the issue so that we might feel comfortable that you provided good alternatives."

I realized after I posted that I ommitted the write in possibility. You can't edit a poll once it's been posted on this forum. What I should have done was delete the post and resubmitted it with a write in option. Instead I made a post immediately after requesting write-ins if the list I provided didn't include someone whom you thought would was more appropriate. Notice the time I posted that message, it was immediately after the poll I posted. The bottom line is that I never meant for the list to contain all the good alternatives and I said so.

"I went to the BELL site you linked. It seems they are looking for academically successful black people to help take a more active role in the black community."

Ok so we've established that positive black role models is probably an issue worth discussing.

" It didn't say anything about idolizing media celebrities"

Nor did I. Do black males adopt role models of famous people? I asked a friend of my step daughter who is black who his role model was last night. He said his role model was Tupac of all people for some very interesting reasons. He's coming for a visit to my house on Sunday, perhaps I can persuade him to post his thoughts.

"and it didn't say anything about finding the "best" role "
model."

And I've already stated that I could have worded it better. Nancy Peliosi used the word best in describing Kweisi Mfume which I posted a link to. Apparently it's not a horrid mistake.

[snakehead]

you have yet to answer why you are interested in this topic. one can only assume it is due to some racist opinions about this group of people.

go f uck yourself.

[MMMMMM]

Snakehead, you didn't even ask him why he is interested in this topic.

Talk about touchy. I think you are being hypersensitive on this issue.

[adios]

I think the reason I'm interested is obvious and I'm basically repeating myself. The plight of Afro-Americans today is not especially encouraging given the demographics of those in poverty and those in incarcerated. I think it's fair to say that many believe that positive role models for black males is important in breaking that cycle of poverty if you will. Breaking the cycle of poverty benefits all members of society IMO. So my interest in positive black role models for black males goes along with a desire to see our society improve which IMO is mainstream type thinking.

I've had several discussions with people about role models since I posted this poll. I don't know if people were just agreeing with me (I don't think so) but everyone I talked to agreed that famous people often become role models. I've already stated that I could have worded the poll better and differently and this will be the third time I've said that. As far as the people on the list let's review them:

Sean "Puffy" Combs - like it or not many people view succesful people in the music industry as role models.

Al Sharpton - He's running for the Democratic party nomination for President. I would think that he's an obvious potential role model.

Jesse Jackson - He's been a leader in the Democratic party for a long time. He's previously sought the Democratic party nomination.

Clarence Thomas - He's a Supreme Court justice enough said.

Colin Powell - A leader in the Republican party, had a distinguished military career, and is currently the Secretary of State.

Tiger Woods - A famous athelete who is well regarded by many.

Michael Jordan - A famous athelete who is well regarded by many. Again people do adopt atheletes as role models.

Franklin Raines - CEO of Fanny Mae and a truly brilliant man IMO.

Johnnie Cochran - His record as an attorney speaks for itself and that record is brilliant. I believe he's leading a fight to get more blacks in NFL head coaching positions. We've already discussed that issue and I posted my thoughts about it. As far as representing OJ, he had a job to do; IMO he conducted himself ethically; he did what he was supposed to do and did it very well. I definitely think Johnnie Cochran is a positive role model.

Kofi Annan - Secretary General of the UN and Nobel prize winner. Enough said.

I fail to see where this list is the least bit insidious or demeaning. I also asked for write in candidates which I explained to Boris. I never meant for the list to be comprehensive. How could any list like this be? I believe that all these people have noteworthy credentials. I certainly should have put more choices down but I naively assumed that people that found the list incomplete and wanted to discuss the issue would simply write in their own candidates or a description thereof. For instance black teachers were mentioned in many articles that I read so somebody might have mentioned that. I get the impression that the list is upsetting to some and I believe it's because they feel comparisons between people like Al Sharpton and Colin Powell is unfair. All I tried to do was present Afro-American leaders in each political party as representitives on the list. If there are more positive role models that people would offer from either party I would certainly be interested in reading those thoughts.

[MMMMMM]

All valid points IMO. And to Snakehead or Boris or anyone else: it's not racism to admit that a cultural problem exists, and to discuss it, or to discuss things that might improve it.

Well I'll say one other thing, just as an aside.

When I read Up From Slavery by Booker T. Washington, it makes me ashamed of the weakness of my own character and I doubt there exist many human beings who could genuinely read this book and not feel similarly. And that regardless of the era it portrays or was written in.

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In the most recent Democratic party Presidential "debate" Howard Dean stated that white people needed to start talking to white people about race. I think his meaning was clear. Of course it's not racism to admit a cultural problem exists. With all the books and articles that I posted links to and about it's clear that many black people believe a cultural problem exists. It was a topic brought up several times in the most recent Democratic party presidential "debate."

[Al Mirpuri]

Here in the UK they did a greatest Briton poll last year or so. Winston Churchill won it. (Apparently, he won WWII all on his own. Which is a geat achievement when you think about it. [And you Yanks thought you won WWII on your own. NO. It was Winston Churchill - honestly.])

Well, recently The Guardian newspaper, a high brow leftwing broadsheet (92% of its readers are graduates) did a greatest Black Briton poll. Some interesting but many obscure names appeared on this list.

Stephen Lawrence appeared on this list. Stephen was a black boy waiting for a bus in a part of London that was not his home turf. Five racist yobs beat him to death. Five men were eventually tried but found not guilty. The London Metropolitan Police Force were heavily criticised in a report that ended up changing police practice. Stephen's parents were awarded honours by the Queen for work they have done in raising awareness about the injustices in British society. Stephen Lawrence appears to be a decent boy who died a tragic death.

However, greatness does not lie in being murdered whilst waiting for for a bus.


AND WHY IS NOT DENZIL WASHINGTON ON THE LIST OF BLACK ROLE MODELS?

[adios]

As I said a few times in this thread, it wasn't meant to be an all inclusive list. Thanks for adding Denzel Washington.