$15-$30 Hand from AJ's

[Philuva]

I was out on the west coast last week and had the privilege of meeting Tommy Angelo, Bad Beetz and Haakee. All great guys and had a wonderful time. This hand came up as I think all three sweated me during the hand. I am going to play it out in 2 different scenarios as I think it makes a difference and it is probably close what to do in each scenario.

Scenario 1:
Loosey-goosey limps UTG, folded to you on the button. You raise with A8o. The BB (who you have no read on) calls and UTG calls. Flop comes 863r. BB checks, UTG checks, you bet, BB calls, UTG folds. Turn is a 5. BB checks, you bet, BB calls. River is a Q. BB checks, what do you do?

Scenario 2:
Loosey-goosey limps UTG, folded to you on the button. You raise with A8o. The BB (who you have no read on) calls and UTG calls. Flop comes 863r. BB bets, UTG folds, you raise, BB calls. Turn is a 5. BB checks, you bet, BB calls. River is a Q. BB checks, what do you do?

Thanks in advance for all responses.
-Phil;

[gavrilo]

In scenario 1 I would bet
scenario 2, I guess I wouldn't like to see a checkraise here and the bb did bet the flop maybe on a straight draw which gets there on the river. nah I would bet again.

[haakee]

I remember seeing you make this move. I don't remember what the outcome was. I would bet the river in either situation.

[elysium]

hi phil
in hand 1, you can bet as long as you will 3 bet the check-raise. if you're willing to do that, then betting is fine. i wouldn't be willing to 3 bet the check-raise, so therefore, i usually would check from last in this spot. i would need more opponent info before betting, particularly how likely he is to bluff raise.

if he was loose but didn't bluff, i'd be more inclined to bet.

of course you realize that hand 1 is a fold pre-flop.

whew phil.....you've been getting the same cards all night. no wonder you play that junk.

[Coilean]

I'd bet the river in either scenario, expecting to be called by an 8 with a worse kicker a lot more often than I get raised by 97 or 85.

[J.A.Sucker]

Sorry I missed you when you were out; it would've been fun.

As for your hands, you've got to bet the river in either case. I'd also pay off if checkraised, though I wouldn't like it. Against the dudes at AJ's, you need to be able to bet these hands and not get totally sick when raised, which people will do with some very bizarre holdings at times.

However, I don't like playing A8o in either event in this game from your spot. This is because it won't get headsup with the UTG moron very often, and now you have garbage, though the best position. Perhaps more damning, you've invited the river rats along by making a big pot. People also like to checkraise the turn in these spots if the pot looks big enough.

[Philuva]

Thanks for the replies. I couldn't remember exactly how the betting went down on the flop, so that is why I posted the two scenarios. I am pretty sure it was scenario 2, where the BB bet out and the called down the rest of the way.

In the hand, I ended up betting the river and he called with a final board of (863) (5) (Q) - no flush draws. I had A8o for a pair of 8's. He showed JJ to take down the pot.

I was sort of surprised to see he had such a strong hand, which led me to think I might have overplayed my hand. But I think he could easily have had a weaker 8 and played it the exact same way. I still think betting the river was a good decision, which all of you agreed.

Thanks,
Phil

[MrGo]

Scenario 1 - I think you check the river here. You figure if you get called, you're in trouble.

Scenario 2 - Bet the river. I put BB on an 8 high kicker. Possible two pair, but the raise more than likely would of came on the turn.

[skp]

Yo..how ya doin' there, Big E:

I have no idea why you say betting is dependant on whether or not you are prepared to 3 bet if the opportunity presents itself. I can tell you that I would never ever 3 bet on the river with this hand but I would almost always make the initial bet when the other guy checks.