Vince Lepore
09-11-2003, 07:11 PM
Yesterday was Wednesday. There is a group in Las Vegas that meets every wednesday to dicuss poker. I used to be a regular at these meetings but haven't attended any for a few months. Yesterday I decided to go. Actually I decided the night before when I ran into the Poker Babe at the Mirage. When she mentioned who the guest speaker would be I made a mental note to attend. I won't tell you who
he was because I did not get permission to spread his name all over the internet. I'll just call him Mr. M.
The meeting was at the Cathay House on Spring Mountain Rd. Cardplayer Cruises subsidized the lunches for everyone that showed up. Linda Johnson and the best post flop player on any cruise anywhere, Jan Fisher, were there. Linda kicked off the meeting. Jan Gave us a low down on the last Poker Cruise. I felt a little envious after hearing of all the wonderful places they visited. If you aare ever in Vegas on
a wednesday you should make it a point to attend a meeting. The discussions and guest speakers are well worth the time investment. Plus as an added attraction you get to spend some time with Alan Schoonmaker is usually there with his ever present charm and witty personality.
Mr. M. got up next to speak. He talked a bit about poker and described 10 tips to the group. I believe his third tip was that Aggressive play gets the money. Yes we all know that. Well most of us do anyway. The example he gave was as follow. He was in a 30-60 Holdem game at bellagio's. The 2 players to his immediate right were
both maniacs, raising or calling every hand. He was in the cutoff with 6s,7s. Four players limped to him including the maniac to his right. He explained that he really does not like hands like 6,7s. But on this occaision because of pot odds he decided to limp in. The button, a solid player,called and both both called. The flop came
Ac,7c,3d. He said that he was ready to fold but to his amazement it was checked to him. He then decided to take a stab at the pot and he bet. The button then raised. Everyone folded to the maniac who called. Not liking his hand much he decided to see the turn for one more small bet because of pot odds. The turn was another 7 giving him
3 of a kind. The maniac checked and he checked trying for a check raise. The button obliged and bet but now the maniac raises. What does he have he asked himself. He could very well have a 7 also with a better kicker too. Too make a long story short he called. He won
the hand on the river when the button showed A,9 and the maniac A,Jo.
He then went on to explain that had the maniac bet the flop and or reraised the flop that he would have folded his 7,6 and the maniac would have won the pot. He used this as his example of how aggressive play would have worked in the favor of the maniac. It made sense.
But then he went on to say that the maniac limped in with his A,Jo after four limpers and he felt this was correct. I questioned him on why he felt limping was correct and he said because of all the other limpers.
I found this interesting because on sunday at the Flamingo while having late night dinner with one of your favorite rgp authors, Mason Malmuth, and another Poker buddy, who I'll refer to as Mike, this very topic came up. I said that in situations like the one described by Mr. M. I will sometimes raise. Actually if I feel that I can get the
button I will definitely raise. Mike said that my play was absolutely incorrect. That it was a losing proposition of which I heartily disagreed. He then asked Mason if he thought my way of playing was profitible. Mason made this comment. It may be profitible to raise here but it may be more profitible to just limp.
This type of discussion is the heart and soul of poker analysis. Every poker player is faced with decisions of this type when playing ring game limit poker. What is the right course of action? Is Mason correct that limping may be more profitible? Well of course he is. Am I correct that sometimes it is more profitible to raise? Why yes I
just happen to be right. If you know that the players behind you and the blinds are quick to fold their hand then raising is probably better than calling. I might even find someone here that can make a good arguement for folding. I mean after all how good a hand is A,Jo in a multiway pot anyway.
Vince
he was because I did not get permission to spread his name all over the internet. I'll just call him Mr. M.
The meeting was at the Cathay House on Spring Mountain Rd. Cardplayer Cruises subsidized the lunches for everyone that showed up. Linda Johnson and the best post flop player on any cruise anywhere, Jan Fisher, were there. Linda kicked off the meeting. Jan Gave us a low down on the last Poker Cruise. I felt a little envious after hearing of all the wonderful places they visited. If you aare ever in Vegas on
a wednesday you should make it a point to attend a meeting. The discussions and guest speakers are well worth the time investment. Plus as an added attraction you get to spend some time with Alan Schoonmaker is usually there with his ever present charm and witty personality.
Mr. M. got up next to speak. He talked a bit about poker and described 10 tips to the group. I believe his third tip was that Aggressive play gets the money. Yes we all know that. Well most of us do anyway. The example he gave was as follow. He was in a 30-60 Holdem game at bellagio's. The 2 players to his immediate right were
both maniacs, raising or calling every hand. He was in the cutoff with 6s,7s. Four players limped to him including the maniac to his right. He explained that he really does not like hands like 6,7s. But on this occaision because of pot odds he decided to limp in. The button, a solid player,called and both both called. The flop came
Ac,7c,3d. He said that he was ready to fold but to his amazement it was checked to him. He then decided to take a stab at the pot and he bet. The button then raised. Everyone folded to the maniac who called. Not liking his hand much he decided to see the turn for one more small bet because of pot odds. The turn was another 7 giving him
3 of a kind. The maniac checked and he checked trying for a check raise. The button obliged and bet but now the maniac raises. What does he have he asked himself. He could very well have a 7 also with a better kicker too. Too make a long story short he called. He won
the hand on the river when the button showed A,9 and the maniac A,Jo.
He then went on to explain that had the maniac bet the flop and or reraised the flop that he would have folded his 7,6 and the maniac would have won the pot. He used this as his example of how aggressive play would have worked in the favor of the maniac. It made sense.
But then he went on to say that the maniac limped in with his A,Jo after four limpers and he felt this was correct. I questioned him on why he felt limping was correct and he said because of all the other limpers.
I found this interesting because on sunday at the Flamingo while having late night dinner with one of your favorite rgp authors, Mason Malmuth, and another Poker buddy, who I'll refer to as Mike, this very topic came up. I said that in situations like the one described by Mr. M. I will sometimes raise. Actually if I feel that I can get the
button I will definitely raise. Mike said that my play was absolutely incorrect. That it was a losing proposition of which I heartily disagreed. He then asked Mason if he thought my way of playing was profitible. Mason made this comment. It may be profitible to raise here but it may be more profitible to just limp.
This type of discussion is the heart and soul of poker analysis. Every poker player is faced with decisions of this type when playing ring game limit poker. What is the right course of action? Is Mason correct that limping may be more profitible? Well of course he is. Am I correct that sometimes it is more profitible to raise? Why yes I
just happen to be right. If you know that the players behind you and the blinds are quick to fold their hand then raising is probably better than calling. I might even find someone here that can make a good arguement for folding. I mean after all how good a hand is A,Jo in a multiway pot anyway.
Vince