does this happen??

[daryn]

i have started to wonder lately, do you think that dealers in B&M cardrooms cheat? i mean, do they use deck mechanics and set cards for certain players? i'm talking about dealers in casino settings.. anyone have experience with this?

[Joe Tall]

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i have started to wonder lately, do you think that dealers in B&M cardrooms cheat? i mean, do they use deck mechanics and set cards for certain players? i'm talking about dealers in casino settings.. anyone have experience with this?

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There are too many cameras for such actions.

Why did you ask this?

[StevieG]

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i have started to wonder lately, do you think that dealers in B&M cardrooms cheat? i mean, do they use deck mechanics and set cards for certain players? i'm talking about dealers in casino settings.. anyone have experience with this?

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I think this is almost guaranteed to be happening someplace somewhere sometime, in the form of collaboration between dealer and player. And the casinos and cardrooms do a lot to prevent this: cameras, frequent dealer changes, floor supervision.
It is not at all to the cardroom's advantage to risk a lucrative license for some short run scam, but dealers try.

[midas]

I think its more likely that there is collusion among players than dealers fixing the decks. I also believe that certain players are very friendly with floor people and get steered to fishier tables.

[StevieG]

This is not to disparage dealers. I should not say "dealers try" but "there is bound to be a dealer that will try".

I'm sure most dealers are honest professionals, and my (extremely) limited exposure to them has shown me many are polite and helpful, as well.

[southerndog]

I don't think casino's have anything to gain by keeping an eye on such activities, and thus are not that interested in watching..

[CrackerZack]

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I don't think casino's have anything to gain by keeping an eye on such activities, and thus are not that interested in watching..

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Besides multi-million dollar fines from the gaming commission if they have any interest in keeping their room going, then they have to ensure an honest game. Even the appearance of inpropriety can kill the room if the rumor spreads enough.

[Dynasty]

There's no chance the dealers in Las Vegas are doing this. The intense security and dealers changing every thirty minutes made it a worthless task. The new automatic shufflers make it impossible.

[Mike Gallo]

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i'm talking about dealers in casino settings.. anyone have experience with this?

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Never. I usually hear losing players discussing such reasons for their misfortune. They blame cheating dealers and not poor play.

Do you have any specific examples?

~MG~

[Dynasty]

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I also believe that certain players are very friendly with floor people and get steered to fishier tables.

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You're imagining this.

The floor people have absolutely no clue who the fishy players are. Even if they watched the tables closely, there are very few floor people who have the judgement to identify a good table.

If players identify a good table, they go on the table change list which every poker room has. A tip in the floor person's pocket may get you to the top of the list though.

[midas]

You can judge this scenario for yourself:

Bellagio - last Thursday afternoon. A tall dark haired gentlemen(40s-regular) is playing $4-$8HE at my table-changing seats every chance he can. Floor person (female blonde - late 30s) comes over to him and starts rubbing his shoulders and asks "How's the table" he says "bad" and she points to another table - he moves.

I just try to call them like I see 'um and I've never seen that back East.

[Barry]

I wouldn't make too much of this. At the end of one of my weeklong trips when I was playing there every day, I too got a quick shoulder rub at the Bellagio. Pointing to an empty seat at another table is also no big deal, as in "Why don't you try this one?"

[Terry]

In Las Vegas the dealers must adhere to a very strict shuffling and card handling procedure. If they do anything out of the ordinary, it tends to stand out or “look funny”, and is likely to draw close examination.

In places where there is no strictly defined (and enforced) house shuffle procedure it is much more likely that someone could pull something off. There are some devastating moves that can be used that require more “balls” than skill, but they are not the sort of thing you will find in a “How They Cheat at Cards” exposé type book.

A few years ago there was an attempt to “cold deck” a jackpot in Vegas. Someone snitched, and Gaming Control was waiting for them. It turned out to be quite entertaining, as the dealer fumbled the deck on the first try and it all had to be reset.

All in all, I’d say that your chances of being cheated by a dealer in Las Vegas are very very small. In casinos in other places they may be somewhat greater but still not very likely. It is much more likely that there are people trying to cheat/steal in home games.

Let me add that if you’re playing in a casino and truly suspect a certain dealer of “doing something”, the boss really does want to know about it. If you have reason to believe that the cardroom manager may be in on it (not unusual), you can talk to the Shift Manager in the pit or Surveillance. Just please do have a real story to tell, not “I lost all my money so he must be cheating.”

[oddjob]

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I wouldn't make too much of this. At the end of one of my weeklong trips when I was playing there every day, I too got a quick shoulder rub at the Bellagio. Pointing to an empty seat at another table is also no big deal, as in "Why don't you try this one?"

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this happened to me too and i thought it was kinda weird. especially since it was from a guy. i probably shouldn't have took my shirt off though. heh.

i agree...

there are some players that think it's the seat. some people think it's the table. some people think it's the deck of cards. a floorperson knows this and will appease them by having them change tables.

i'm sure if you said this table sucks, the floor would have pointed to the same table for you to move.

[RiverMel]

How can you possibly say that this never happens? I agree that I doubt it ever does, but to make such a blanket statement is unjustified, unless you have personally obsereved and scrutinized every single shuffle in the history of B&M casinos.

[midas]

Next time, I'll demand the back rub for myself as well!!!

When he left, I actually felt pretty good because to prior him leaving, I had not yet identified the sucker/fish at the table - so I was getting a little nervous!!

[oddjob]

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I had not yet identified the sucker/fish at the table - so I was getting a little nervous!!

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this is no problem for me, cause it's always me.

[Howard Burroughs]

It may not happen a lot. It may not happen often. But it has happened.


I know of more then one dealer (in Las Vegas) that has been fired for stealing money out of pots. Pretty dumb of them I know, but it has happened. I'm aware of it happening in both on the Strip poker rooms and off-Strip rooms.


The last two places I am aware of where a dealer was fired for stealing money out of pots, both were stealing from $1-5 stud games. Believe it or not.



I don't think it's rampant, but it has occured on occasion.


As others have said, I don't think you ever have to worry about the house cheating you, and the dealers who steal are few and far between (and always end up getting caught it seems).



Best of Luck

Howard

[Dynasty]

I don't doubt that dealers have stolen chips from pots and the tray. I was saying I don't believe dealers are stacking the deck so that certain players win.

[Terry]

Whiskey Jack?

[RollaJ]

If someone were cheating for me I would be playing the highest limit in the room, not 4-8

[t_rex]

I hope you wouldn't do that. I'm sure the highest-limit tables get the most attention in that respect. And it's the obvious thing to do - you are going to cheat, so you do it at the highest limit possible. Thus, it would be much easier to identify a cheater if they did such a thing.

I think it would be more lucrative, long-term, to play mid-limit tables in a more inconspicuous fashion.

[StevieG]

Not only that but the higher limit players are probably the sharpes and most likely to know to the dollar what the pot minus the rake should be.