Limit HE Do you play 6 handed or 10?

[Cigwin]

I've been playing only the 10 player games. Is there an advantage to the 6 player games?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

If you are better short-handed, play the six player games. If not, don't. In the six player games, the best hand tends to stand up more often. On the flip side, drawing hands aren't as valuable as they would be in a full game. It's really a matter of preference rather than profitability. I don't really care myself, but then I don't play much limit hold'em online.

al

[jujujaja34]

Cigwin,

The real advantage, as in any game, lies in a player's skill. Most will attest that very few players (compared to a full ring game) play shorthanded well. In shorthanded you face many more decisions than in a full game, thus the potential profit is much greater to a skilled player.

Personally, in my first year of playing I got absolutely killed playing shorthanded. I played way too many hands, chased way too many pots, and lost a lot of money.

After learning the hard way, I've done very very well playing shorthanded the past year and a half. There really is no substitute for experience though. You have so many more decisions than a regular game and are put in so many different situations, that I feel experience is the most valuable tool to winning shorthanded.

The best piece of advice I've heard for shorthanded games is from Doyle Brunson. He advises (and I'm paraphrasing) not to play that many more hands than in a regular ring game, but to play the ones you are involved in much more agressively.

Some basic tips:

1) Don't drastically alter your starting requirements from a full game. Too many players start playing garbage just because they've read you need to widen your starting hand requirements for a shorthanded game.

2) Only rarely open-limp. If you play the correct starting hands, you should feel comfortable opening for a raise.

3) Just because the game is short, don't get caught up defending blinds with nothing.

3a) In many short games, players will always try to steal from the button. In the small blind, 3-bet with your best 1/3rd of hands. In the BB, I tend to call and utilize a check-raise if the flop is favorable.

4) Don't coldcall. Ok, occasionally you'll coldcall with AA or KK to slowplay, or with 88 on the button with 3 coldcalls before you, but as a general rule don't coldcall. You'll see too many people coldcalling with QJo or K10o. If you're hand is worth playing, most of the time you want to consider a 3-bet first.

5) Postion, position, position.

Basically, the same way you want to play in late postion for a full game when noone has opened. The aforementioned tips might seem like common knowledge, but they address the most common mistakes I see poor players make playing shorthanded.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

jujujaja34

[ML4L]

Hey Cigwin,

The short-handed games have more hands per hour, so if your average profit per hand 6 handed is anywhere close to your average profit per hand 10 handed, your hourly rate will be higher short-handed.

Aside from that, as the other posters stated, it's just a matter of preference. If you're an aggressive player, you might want to take up short-handed play. Jujujaja's advice was an excellent starting point if you're just making the switch. One word of caution: in my experience, you're probably going to find the competition to be tougher in short-handed games because good players know that those games can be more profitable (do others agree?).

ML4L

[Bokonon]

I love shorthanded play -- but it's a lot trickier. There's a ton of books on correct play in 10-handed . . . and in 10-handed, it seems to me (at least at low limits) there's little +EV in bluffing. Stick to solid starting hands, know when to get out and how to keep people in when you've got the nuts, and that's that.

On the other hand, other than the chapter in HEFAP, I haven't found anything useful written on shorthanded play. (Help? Anyone?) Lot more bluffing involved, and, at least on the $3/$6 games on Paradise, knowing who is tight, who is loose, and who varies play is tremendously important. Knowing who you can steal from vs who will stick around with bottom pair until the river . . . again, massively important.

I guess what I'd say is that I find shorthanded to be more fun bcs it's faster and I do play more hands (maybe I'm an idiot, but I see about 50-55% of flops, though that includes the blinds). But the variance is a lot higher and you have to pay a LOT more attention to reading the other players.

[jujujaja34]

"maybe I'm an idiot, but I see about 50-55% of flops, though that includes the blinds"

I don't remember the last session I was over 38%. Depending on the agressiveness of my opponents I tend to be between 34% and 38%.

jujujaja34

[Nate tha' Great]

To redirect the question a little bit: what have been people's experiences with the 6-player max tables at Party, etc?

I like playing shorthanded when it happens spontaneously, but I've shied away from trying the 6-max tables out of fear that they will have been self-selected for strong shorthanded players.

[stripsqueez]

i play short handed almost exclusively

i think playing 34-38% is a bit too high in a 6 max game unless you always get to play the blinds - if you play 50-55% you will eventually go broke even in a loose game

the party 6 max tables are profitable for a solid player even up to 15/30

[Bokonon]

Noted . . . maybe I should probably tighten up even more. (I used to play, er, even a higher percentage . . .)

In my defense I'm actually playing a 5-handed table, not 6, and I'm playing the blinds a good percentage of the time due to infrequent preflop raising. I *am* playing hands like Q8o and Q7o in late, though -- something I'd never do in a 10-player game. And so far, I've got a +EV with hands like that, based on my (admittedly limited) PokerTracker stats.

You know, 38% seems really low if you include the blinds. Heck, in a 5-seated game I'm in the blinds 40% of the time -- on a table with rare preflop raising, I'm probably seeing a flop 30% of the time just due to the blinds. If I see a flop with just one out of every five other hands, now I'm at 50%.

Doesn't strike me as being too loose at a 5-seat table. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

[Ian M.]

I don't think those games are tougher because the good players flock to them, I think they are tougher because loose players and overly aggressive players are more "correct" in playing that way in a shorthanded game.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
other than the chapter in HEFAP, I haven't found anything useful written on shorthanded play. (Help? Anyone?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question. I'd like to find a source to read more. Maybe some essays online?

I'll post the same question in the Books forum.

[Nate tha' Great]

I think the key isn't necessarily playing more hands or fewer hands, but different hands. Middle suited connectors and low pairs are a lot less valuable at a short-handed table, and should probably be mucked unless you're in LP and just about everyone has limped.

OTOH, something like A9o or A8o is playable, IMHO.

Q8o and Q7o is going too far. If you have to fear an overcard *and* a better kicker, you're not going to be able to play the flop with the aggression that a short-handed game demands.

[lefty rosen]

The shorter the table the less bingo the game becomes in a six handed game you should still play tight, just loosen up on your ace rag requirements in late position. Also if the table has 4 or more callers then the other guys have no starting hand requirements. Another thing is in late position trouble hands like King 8 off or King 9 off become power hands if their isn't much action on the specific hand.