tracking/tracing of people for M

[brad]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A45434-2003Sep8?language=printer

'An estimated 1 to 2 percent will be labeled "red" and will be prohibited from boarding. These passengers also will face police questioning and may be arrested. '

wow. like i said, M, bad credit and no flying for you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif oh and you may be arrested. i see. nice.

hey, no biggie, thats just 3 or 4 people per plane or someting.

this is just the mainstream stuff theyve already admitted to.

look up katherine albrecht, rfid , stuff like that.

i posted about oregon wanting to insitute satellite tracking taxation of cars starting in 2 years.

[brad]

'
"This system is going to be replete with errors," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program. "You could be falsely arrested. You could be delayed. You could lose your ability to travel."
'

i didnt realize i hadnt gottent to the good part.

[MMMMMM]

I read almost the same article perhaps 6 months ago.

None of this is news to me and in fact I posted a slam on England for their attempt to get road tax liability tracked and accounted for each car through a GPS system.

Also, I slammed their ubiquitous video cameras, which are largely ineffective at preventing violent crime anyway: muggings are now commonplace. Obviously the cameras do less to deter crime than an armed citizenry would, and the muggers are greatly encouraged because it is illegal for their intended victims to carry any sort of weapon for self-defense. Let's all say DUH here, what works and what doesn't? Why isn't this obvious? Answer: because the liberals and socialists and leftists think they already know the answers and therefore ignore the plain facts.

nickyg has been mugged 3 times already in London and he is only 24. That with a million video cameras on the street corners. That would never happen in Texas or anywhere the citizenry commonly carries weapons. Why don't they realize the truth that if you outlaw weapons, only outlaws will have weapons and the police usually can't be there to protect you. Are the muggers going to choose to mug you somewhere with the police standing nearby having coffee and doughnuts?? So how can the police save you from a mugging? Let's all say DUH again once more, please.

Some people also don't have any inkling of the potential dangers of Big Brother.

That said, I'm not convinced the soon-to-be airline screening system will be bad in it's intial application, but it has the potential to expand and become bad.

A better solution may just be to seal our borders with a long string of troops and watchtowers, and to require all illegal immigrants to leave or become legal (through a special process) within 1 year. Those illegals who are also violent criminals could not become legal and would have to be deported. Also, make issuance of visas a much more selective process. Allow only the best and most obviously safe to visit on visa; anyone else we don't need. Too many people here already and we don't need the additional risk.

[Cyrus]

"NickyG has been mugged 3 times already in London and he is only 24. That would never happen in Texas or anywhere the citizenry commonly carries weapons."

What are you saying exactly, so that I understand?

You're saying that muggings in corners don't happen in Texas? Or that there's nobody in Texas that has been mugged three times?

You do understand, I hope, that Nicky's is not the typical experience of anyone residing in England or Europe. (You wanna compare victim statistics between Europe and the U.S., just say the word!)

[Cyrus]

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/gb/electric/87/VWC/87005-S423.jpg

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
"NickyG has been mugged 3 times already in London and he is only 24. That would never happen in Texas or anywhere the citizenry commonly carries weapons."

What are you saying exactly, so that I understand?

You're saying that muggings in corners don't happen in Texas? Or that there's nobody in Texas that has been mugged three times?

You do understand, I hope, that Nicky's is not the typical experience of anyone residing in England or Europe. (You wanna compare victim statistics between Europe and the U.S., just say the word!)


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you missed the thrust of M's post ( or else you are just being your normal obsinate self). In Texas by the third time they try to mug you, you're armed and blow their brains out. I am not sure if he is implying the Irish aren't as smart as Texans or just that it is easier to defend yourself in texas. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MMMMMM]

Cyrus the mugging rate in London already has surpassed that of New York City. It's become endemic in London because the population isn't allowed to carry anything with which to defend themselves. Heck even professional home invading burglars are entitled to some protection in their chosen line of work according to British courts.

A few Bernard Goetz's would do far more to reduce the mugging rate in London than would another million video cameras.

If the muggers want to pull a knife on someone they should get shot in self-defense. No way should law-abiding citizens be required to remain defenseless to be attacked by these brutes.

Anyway I'm glad you said I hit that one out of the park; next I'll be on the lookout for a Grand Slam :-)

Actually, I've determined that being a radio talk show host would be far more profitable than playing poker so I'm just warming up for the job /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MMMMMM]

"I am not sure if he is implying the Irish aren't as smart as Texans or just that it is easier to defend yourself in texas.":)

Actually I guess I'm implying that the British are still labouring under the delusion that government can protect them sufficiently if they just give it enough power.

[Cyrus]

MMMMM wrote
"[Mugging] has become endemic in London because the population isn't allowed to carry anything with which to defend themselves."

Actually, only a very small minority of people are allowed to legally carry firearms in the world. I;m sure you know this. So, then, what is it you claim actually? That the United States has the lowest crime rate of the world?!? (I'm having a hard time typing the previous phrase, my fingers are rolling over from laughter.)

If you ever care to debate, like a self-respecting analyst, the reasons behind a phaenomenon, such as London's petty crime increase, instead of trivializing it, I would suggest a few key words : Thatcher / disenfranchize / systemic unemployment / teenage underclass / social fabric etc. It's a good start.

Wake up CALL wrote
"In Texas by the third time they try to mug you, you're armed and blow their brains out."

I'm sure there are a lot of Texans that have been mugged three times in their lives. You're just being your usual macho self.

But let's cut to the chase. The violent crime rate in Texas, would you say that it's ummmmm the lowest in the world, the second lowest, what? Give us a general idea. (Will you stop that, fingers, and jus' type?)

[brad]

cyrus if you want facts on guns and crime look up professor john lott.

its interesting reading , full of facts, etc. (and citations !)

[MMMMMM]

Violent crime skyrockets in London as laws further restrict the ability of citizens to defend themselves.

Statistics in the USA show an inverse correlation between violent crime and restrictive gun laws. (See Lott)

Both Russia and Brazil have more restrictive gun laws than the USA and higher violent crime rates.

Switzerland and Israel may have the most heavily armed citizen populations in the world. How outrageous are their internal violent crime rates?

Fact is, if criminals know you can't defend yourself, you become a much more attractive target. Surprise, surprise.

[Wake up CALL]

I'm sure there are a lot of Texans that have been mugged three times in their lives.

Please cite your source for this belief. Here is a link to help with your research Relative Crime Rates in Texas. (http://g.msn.com/9SE/1?http://www.cjpc.state.tx.us/stattabs/statecomparison/CrimeIncRatesection.pdf&&DI=293&IG=e04e31a5-4d0e-4830-9f3f-67fe9d16c432&POS=7&CM=WU&CE=7)

[MMMMMM]

remove the "inverse" in the correlation/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MMMMMM]

Appreciate the link (even though I'm not Cyrus), but for some reason it comes up as "Forbidden" on my browser/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Wake up CALL]

It should open a PDF file MMMMMM. Do you have Adobe Acrobat reader installed on your PC?

[MMMMMM]

Nope...trying to get it now but when I click the "Get Adobe Now" icon on the Adobe website I am taken to a mostly blank page...well nvm...I'll figure it out hopefully...thx

[Wake up CALL]

Here is a better site and it is a normal HTML webpage MMMMMM.
Compare Crime Stats from 2500 Cities (http://www.bestplaces.net/html/crime_compare.asp)

[Cyrus]

"Please cite your source for this belief [there are a lot of Texans that have been mugged three times in their lives]."

My belief is based on the following line of thought : Western democracies are plagued by various types of urban crime. (This doesn't mean that the rest of the world is crime-free.) The United States is one of the most crime-ridden western democracies, particularly as regards violent crimes.

Texas, despite bellicose claims to the contrary, is not that different to the rest of the United States. Hence, Texas' crime rate should not be too different than the other States'. There are people who have been mugged at least 3 times in their lives elsewhere, so why not in Texas ? Because people have guns? The gun ownership argument can generate threads faster than a Bruce-Cyrus disagreement but no one in his right mind would seriously consider it.

"Here is a link (http://www.bestplaces.net/html/crime_compare.asp) to help with your research."

Thanks. The data from your link indicates that Houston has 5739 incidents of "Burglary, Larceny & Auto Theft" and Dallas 7950 per 100,000 of population. The respective stats for "Aggravated Assault" are 726 and 634. Now, if about 7% of the people of two very representative Texas cities are falling victim to such incidents, I would imagine, without resorting to the math, that there do exist people who have fallen victim at least 3 times in their lives.

--Cyrus

PS : I noticed that Palestine, Texas, is relatively quiet. A natural destination point, perhaps, on which to unload three million criminally-minded towelheads from the other end of the world, provided enough high trees are available, wouldn't you say.

[Cyrus]

. . . undercapitalized.

--Cyrus

PS : Thanks for the pointer abt Lott. In reciprocation, I would recommend the study (http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/features/reader/0,2061,561876,00.html) by Professor Ian Ayres, Yale Law School, and Professor John Donohue, Stanford Law School, identifying severe coding errors in Lott's data, which, when corrected, shows there's no drop in crime due to "laws allowing citizens to carry concealed handguns".

[nicky g]

Actually, two out of the three times I was mugged were when I lived in Brussels. As I understand it, teenagers (at least in Europe), and especially teenage boys, are by far the most common victims of street crime, which may somewhat downgrade the shocking fact that I've been mugged three times and I'm only 24 (ie it doesn't imply I'm going to contuinue to be mugged that frequently for the rest of my life). Since I turned 20 noone has as much as said boo to me.
I'm not a particular fan of either cctv or weapons. London street crime may be higher than New York but I would be very surprised if you could find any European country where street crime and violent crime levels are higher than in the US as a whole. Certainly New York crime levels have been far higher than in London in the past, when the gun law situation was not much different (people were allowed to own handguns with a licence in the UK, but it was hard to get, almost noone did, and it was illegal to carry them in public). As I've said before, street crime levels correspond very closely with indicators of economic equality. There is very little street crime in egalitarian countries such as the Scandinivian countries, and it was not a major problem in Communist countries (obviously they had other problems to contend with). In hugely unequal countries such as the US, Brasil and Russia (two of which you cite) violent crime is a major problem. Also interestingly, Britain and London in particular, has been steadily becoming a more unequal society for years, including under the present government. Clarkmeister asked me to cite some data backing this up previously; I don't know of any on the web, though I'm sure it can't be hard to find, but there's a book called Mind the Gap by a Professor Wilkinson (forget his first name) that discusses the effects of economic inequality.

[brad]

yes but it really doesnt matter.

think about what is news.

1000 times a crime is stopped with the threat of a weapon. (eg, guy breaks into your house you hold him at gunpoint etc.)

1 time somebody gets shot and its 'news'.

[MMMMMM]

Err....Cyrus please check your arithmetic;-)

"Thanks. The data from your link indicates that Houston has 5739 incidents of "Burglary, Larceny & Auto Theft" and Dallas 7950 per 100,000 of population. The respective stats for "Aggravated Assault" are 726 and 634. Now, if about 7% of the people of two very representative Texas cities are falling victim to such incidents, I would imagine, without resorting to the math, that there do exist people who have fallen victim at least 3 times in their lives."

The Aggravated Assault category is around 0.7% not 7% and I assume you are calculating using that category since we are talking about the chances of being mugged not burglarized three times.

So 0.7^3 produces a pretty small number. nickyg has actually managed to hit a sort of jackpot after a fashion, especially since managed to escape injury in all of these assaults;-)

nicky did you take my advice and start carrying some shillings in a sock to swing and hit them in the mouth with next time this occurs (just in case)?/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Actualy nickyg when I was in my teens I was twice jumped by packs of toughs, numbering about a half-dozen the first time and 4 the second time. On the second occasion they started off by throwing rocks in my general direction as they approached. I managed to escape injury by applying the judo and wrestling I practiced on a regular basis and thoroughly enjoyed the sensation of throwing the punks one after another onto their backs.

On the second occasion the we were at a street commuter train station. I don't think my primary assailant relished the sensation of his back meeting the pavement so suddenly. It was great fun and a true story. That time the police came by fairly quickly.

The other time it actually happened on high school grounds and when the principal found out I along with the toughs were suspended for a few days. They all lied and the principal may have had trouble believing the fact that I escaped injury while defeating these miscreants.

A short time after the second incident (age 16) I started wearing a folding hunting knife on my hip and after that I was never attacked, possibly due to the superb deterrent effect.

In the summers when I was going swimming or running and didn't wear a belt with the trunks (so no way to attach the knife) I enjoyed carrying a stout oaken staff about 6 feet long which I had crafted from a sapling. It was easy to affix a small water bottle (or bottle of home-made beer) to the end for convenience. Thus when walking or jogging I was even immune to the occasional nasty dog.

Lest you think dogs are never a menace a friend of mine had one appear out of nowhere once and clamp its teeth onto his right buttock. It had somehow managed to get loose from its tether where it had barked at him every day as he jogged past. On this day it didn't bark.

Well anyway the staff was fun to carry and added a bit of character I suppose as it had a nice naturally polished texture. It also enhanced the exercise quality of the jogging. It was fun jogging from Newton to Wellesley along Route 9 carrying carrying the staff on the way to visit a friend. It was also great for mountain climbing.

The summer I graduated high school I climbed Wachusett Mountain (highest point in Massachusetts) in my bare feet as I had gone barefoot all summer (even while jogging) and my feet were in condition then. What a great view. I'm going out for a good long walk with the 8 lb. dumbbells
in a few minutes (after I read the rest of the recent responses) as I used to love feeling in that kind of shape. I'll get there yet again if it kills me.

[nicky g]

No, no shillings. This was all a long time ago, when we were teenagers, and by slightly older teenagers. Once 2 of us got jumped by a group of about 12 who basically just wanted to practice their fighting techniques, but took our money off us after for the privilege, which was a bit annoying; the other two times we got approached by groups of youths (once with a knife, once without) who started talking to us, innocuously enough at first, and eventually demanded money; both times I handed it over without a fuss as the amounts were so petty (never more than about $20). Maybe calling them all muggings is a bit of an exaggeration. I don't think socking anyone would have helped as we were very outnumbered each time.
A while later I did Jujitsu for a couple of years which was a pretty good self-defence system, and which maybe added to my confidence, which probably helps, but in general I think I think I left that demographic - ie teenager liable to being threatened by older, tougher teenagers - a long time ago.
As for hitting a jackpot, I've always been lucky that way; you should see my recent bad beat history. Long as yer arm.

[Cyrus]

Good stories.

As to the arithmetic, yes, it was about all theft incidents. Whether you're mugged round some corner or you have your car broken into is a matter of circumstance. This is why I wrote 7%.

I see you correctly acknowledged that "nickyg has actually managed to hit a sort of jackpot". Getting mugged three times -- at age 24 no less -- is something outnof the ordinary, no matter where you live. Which puts all the braggadocio about Texans to its proper place.

"I'm going out for a good long walk with the 8 lb. dumbbells in a few minutes, after I read the rest of the recent responses."

When you come back, I'll have a response up that'll make'em feel like they weigh 48 lb. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Actual Jake]

[Actual Jake]

Perhaps a third of Arizona's drivers carry firearms and the locals know this. It isn't the Grand Canyon State drivers that cut you off and display the middle finger; it's always the tourists.

[Cyrus]

Actor Charles Bronson Dead At 81 (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/31/entertainment/main570960.shtml)