1st amendment important point re: no law

[brad]

andy fox made point about 1st amendment no law but then says there are libel laws, etc.

i think an important needs to be made. (ive read what i wrote below its not very good but you guys are smart)

a) a lot of modern laws like speed limit are laws which limit your activities. (eg, you are not allowed to exceed 55or65)

b) but historically laws are there to rectify a damage. so if youre driving along and cause a damage then u are liable and have to pay.

so really u see 2 types of laws.

take freedom of press laws. if they followed a) above then the gov would regulate and they would need approval to write about people.

but since they follow b) , only if they cause a damage (eg, libel), does the law come into effect.

and further, you could say that the reason is that even with 1st amendment protection, still press cant infring upon someones elses rights through libel.

ok.

in my reply i will relate this to 2nd amendment, unless someone covers it in their reply.

[brad]

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid= 489

interesting oped on 'free speech zones'

[MMMMMM]

That's right brad, libel laws do not infringe on free speech because people are not prohibited from libelling anyone. There is no criminal penalty for libel. You are perfectly free to libel someone if you wish to do so. If you do, however, you just might end up facing a civil lawsuit seeking restitution for damages. Where, by the way, did andy refer to this? I hope he did not confuse the two issues.

There is no "right" to not be libelled. There is however a process by which unfairly injured parties can seek damages, if applicable. It is important not to confuse the two.

By the way, in Europe and Canada, there are laws against "hate speech" and these laws carry criminal penalties. One problem is that it can be difficult to define "hate speech" and therefore such laws can be threatened to be used to squelch legitimate criticism. In these countries, free speech is not protected as it is here. Where did the Nazis and Fascists come from? Europe. You'd think Europe would have learned the lesson by now and not passed laws restricting free speech. But no, some cultures are slow to learn, even from history. Yes, I am saying the Europeans and Canadians are wrong and backwards in passing laws criminalizing what should be free speech. The underlying right to freedom of speech is incomparably more important than not offending someone. People do not realize readily how dangerous laws can be which give the government police-state like powers. And laws criminalizing freedom of expression are a step towards fascism even if their underlying intent might have sprung from good-heartedness.

[MMMMMM]

I don't know, brad, I think there is a lot to be said for keeping demonstrations orderly and not shutting down say Manhattan traffic for the day due to hundreds of thousands of people clogging up important thoroughfares.

I doubt it's "Free Speech Zones" as the author says; rather I would bet it's "Demonstration Zones" which I think is a good idea if the demonstration is large enough to be capable of shutting down much of Manhattan's traffic, for instance. Why should the commuters and delivery people have to get stuck or miss their work or business for the day. The demonstrators get full coverage on the news anyway if it is a large demonstration; they don't have to shut down half of Midtown for that.

[brad]

well u missed the point, if youre pro bush you can wave your sign at the event but if your anti bush hey we got this free speech zone 16 1/2 blocks over there for you. and if you are 'caught' outside the 'zone' you face arrest.

[MMMMMM]

And how are you sure of this?

[brad]

the link was to an article which stated that, but ive read a lot of articles over say the past year which say the same thing.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
the link was to an article which stated that, but ive read a lot of articles over say the past year which say the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pure fluff journalism with no credible sources as are the majority of your posts. Hell I could make a webpage and start taking quotes from Looney Tunes and make it look all nice and credible. that alone does nat make either the article authentic nor accurate. Try finding a US national publication that is known to be somewhat unbiased that supports your statements of fact (sic).

[brad]

i posted a link to amazon.com or some other book website that accurately described joe trento as a serious, journalist,

as opposed to

your totally unsupported statement that he was a hollywood scriptwriter.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
i posted a link to amazon.com or some other book website that accurately described joe trento as a serious, journalist,

as opposed to

your totally unsupported statement that he was a hollywood scriptwriter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is my Link (http://www.cdi.org/adm/Transcripts/1020/) to Joe Trento of the LOL "National Security News Service. And you have the nerve to call him a serios journalist. Well now since we have that little tidbit out of the way how about some real news links for the statements you post as facts in this thread.

Since you seem to fawn all over Joe Trento here is the link to his publication you like to call respectable. Funny [censored] Here Brad. (http://www.publicedcenter.org/) This site is right up your alley, fodder for impressionable left wingers, quite short on substance but full of sound bites and creative journalism.

Beware Chicken Little, The sky is Falling!

[Wake up CALL]

Brad I just had to add this for you Buddy. Jay Gourley who is the number 2 guy just below your guru Joe Trento came from The National Enquirer. Pretty remarkable? Not really, after all he does work with Joe Trento. Please try to recognixe the difference between a National Enquirer type rag publication and authentic journalism. This guy went from interviewing the alien who had Elvis's baby to working for Joe Trento, pretty damn appropriate if you ask me!

Link for bradeepoo Jay Gourley at NSNS (http://www.publicedcenter.org/staff.shtml)

Here is an article of his I enjoyed Rats live to be 150 (http://www.globalideasbank.org/BOV/BV-569.HTML)

Another one I enjoyed see the pertinent part of the article below Jay Gourley Dumpster Diver. (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-020602shred.story) Remember this guy is the Vice President to Joe Trento President of NSNS. Brad I truly do envy your source material used to prove your points.




Perhaps the most famous of these "dumpster diver" incidents was the case involving former Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger, whose garbage was picked through by National Enquirer reporter Jay Gourley in 1975. Among the juicy tidbits Gourley found were details of Kissinger's Secret Service protection, shopping lists, and unopened cans of food. Industry experts say similar dumpster diving is a common form of industrial espionage.

[brad]

all i have to say is you keep changing your story; in any case my citations didnt depend on joe trento or his entourage.

p.s. from now on im going on the board as JT or 'joe trento'. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[brad]

dude the link was to a documentary like on pbs. the show had a retired admiral on it too. now if youve been drinking all day thats one thing, but otherwise youre out of it.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
all i have to say is you keep changing your story; in any case my citations didnt depend on joe trento or his entourage.

p.s. from now on im going on the board as JT or 'joe trento'. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope I haven't changed my story Brad. Just because Joe Trento calls himself that doesn't make him knowledgable, accurate or respectable. Plus he is still a hollywood consultant which is what I told you he was before not a scriptwriter, that was your term. You are too lazy to even research my quotations properly much less anyone else.


One more time Brad, or shall I call you Joe, please post links to the facts in your original post in this thread. Or is it you are unable?

PS: Your credibility as either brad or Joe Trento would be quite similar.