rules help

[ArtVandelay]

I'm thinking of spreading a home game half stud and half Hold'em. I've been playing Hold'em for years, but I know almost nothing about Stud. As I intend to use this experience to help develop a casino stud game, I'd like to get the rules exactly right. Thanks in advance for all responses.

1. For any given number of players, what size should the ante be relative to the limit?

2. What should the bring-in be... 1/2 the small bet?

3. What is the stud equivalent of raising on the BB in Hold'em? Can the bring-in raise if it's called back to him?

4. How does the paired door card thing work of fourth street?

5. How are ties broken for who acts first?

6. Is it better to cap the betting at 3 or 4 raises, and how do the rules apply to the first two rounds?

[StudStrategyCom]

at a 50/1 the standard ante is about 10c and a complete bet would be an additional 15c to make it half of the table's minimum bet.
1/2 ante is about 25c complete bet is 50c
2/4 ante is about 50c complete bet is 1 dollar
and so forth...

A completion of the bring in bet is double the ante and should also equal half of the table's minimum bet.

The person with the pair on 4th has the opportunity to place double the minimum bet. It is not a have to.
At some card rooms if a double bet is placed, anyone at the table can also make a double raise. This applies only to 4th street in stud hi.

First to act is highest hand showing. Highest card or pair on fourth street to sixth street. The person on sixth street that was first to bet remains in first position when betting at the river.

At the bring-in the suits are ranked in the event that 2 players have the same lowest card. Highest to lowest is spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs.

Capping occurs at the 4th bet (3rd raise).
(Bet, raise, re-raise, re-raise) Same as hold 'em.

The first two rounds the raise cap rule is the same.

I'd encourage you to check out the website for more rules information. Not specifically to plug the site, but I really think the information you are looking for is all contained there.

If you need more specifics or clarification I'd be happy to answer your inquiries. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Best of success at the tables!

[7stud]

1. The ante won't depend on "any given number of players". Unlike with HE, as the number of players in seven stud is smaller, the total of the antes is smaller(fewer people multiplied by the ante versus the same blinds in HE no matter how many players). You can tailor the ante anyway you want--the larger it is, the looser play will be. An average ante is usually considered to be 10-15% of the average future bets. For instance, in a 15-30 game the ante is $2, and in a 30-60 it's $5.

2) I think 1/2 the small bet is too large. In a 15-30 game it's $5, and in 30-60 it's $10. But, once again, the bring in is part of the antes, so the larger it is the looser play will be.

3) There is no stud equivalent. No, the bring in can't raise when the bet gets back to him.

4)With a paired door card on 4th street anyone can bet the minimum or maximum. If someone bets the minimum, someone else can raise the maximum or the minimum. However, as in most forms of poker, you would not be able to raise a maximum bet with a minimum bet, i.e. the raise has to be as least as much as the bet.

5)By suits alphabetically: clubs is lowest(the 2 of clubs is the lowest card), then diamonds, hearts, spades.

6)I believe the number you cap the bet with is somewhat arbitrary. Capping the betting prevents colluders from trapping an honest player in a series of unending bets. I guess theoretically it also determines how expensive each round will be: the larger the number of bets allowed, the higher the average round's price will be.

[ArtVandelay]

[StudStrategyCom]

I could swear I posted a correction to this however I'm not able to find it...?

[ QUOTE ]
at a 50/1 the standard ante is about 10c and a complete bet would be an additional 15c to make it half of the table's minimum bet.
1/2 ante is about 25c complete bet is 50c
2/4 ante is about 50c complete bet is 1 dollar
and so forth...


[/ QUOTE ]

everything that says ante up there should actually read "bring-in". I wasn't able to correct it in time. My apologies.

[7stud]

I haven't quite got the editing down either: sometimes I change the preview and then post the message, but later I notice the changes didn't take.

[Andy B]

I feel that the ideal structure for stud is one with a three-chip and six-chip bets, and a half-chip bring-in. Such a structure might be $30/60 with a $5 ante and a $10 force. If you're going to play with a limit where a third-bet bring-in isn't convenient, I would suggest that you go with a quarter-bet bring-in rather than half-bet. I think that there should be some chance that a person would fold having limped in. Obviously, if someone voluntarily limps in for $2 in a $4/8 game, he's not going to fold for another $2 (well, I have seen it done, but not by anyone who had any idea what he was doing). Some structures that I have played that I like:

$75/150 with a $15 ante, $25 bring-in (whee!)
$30/60 with a $5 ante, $10 bring-in
$20/40 with a $3 ante, $5 bring-in
$15/30 with a $2 ante, $5 bring-in

Some structures that I don't like:

$2/4 with a $.50 ante, $1 bring-in
$4/8 with a $.50 ante, $2 bring-in

And one structure that is OK, but I think the ante is too small:

$10/20 with a $1 ante, $3 bring-in

Lest you think that I like the structure in the bigger games just because they're bigger games, my local $3/6 and $6/12 games are structured exactly the same as the $30/60 game, and I like them just fine.

In stud, a player has the option of "completing" the bring-in bet to the full bet. For example, in the $30/60 game, you have the option of folding, calling the $10 bring-in, or completing the bet to $30. This is not technically a raise. The cap is still four or five full bets depending on the room. The bring-in does not have an option to raise after players have called, but he may bring it in for a full bet if he so chooses. He may also raise if someone else completes.

On fourth street, if someone has a paired door card, he may bet either the lower or the higher amount. The other players have the same option when it is their turn to bet or raise. Once there has been a maximum bet or raise, all subsequent raises must be of the maximum amount.

The low card by suit is the forced bring-in. The suits are ranked the same as in bridge--clubs, diamonds, hearts, spades, lowest to highest. That's alphabetical order if that helps you any. On subsequent streets, if there is a tie, the player closest to the dealer's left opens the betting. Ties are fairly rare, so it isn't a huge disadvantage to be sitting to the dealer's left. Unless he stinks or something.

I think that the five-bet cap is distinctly superior to the four-bet cap. It prevents frivolous capping (although I don't think I saw a capped betting round in three days of playing stud at Foxwoods a couple of weeks ago), and allows for more action when the hands merit it. If you're using a five-bet cap, the first round is capped at five full bets, e.g., $150 in a $30/60 game. On fourth street, if there is a paired door card, the betting is capped at five (or four) bets, regardless of their size. So a capped betting round in a $30/60 game could be $300, or $150, or somewhere in between. In practice, most players bet the maximum most of the time, if they bet at all.

There is no fourth street rule in high-low split games. You may only bet the minimum.

[Vehn]

Post a trip report or something about foxwoods, I forgot to ask you about it yesterday when I was busy getting killed.