15-30 Borgata hand

[Lou]

I was playing 15-30 at the Borgata this weekend. Table was pretty loose and some
what aggressive at times.

One MP limper, I call in the cutoff with KsQs. Button makes it 2 bets, SB makes
it 3, BB and limper fold, I call, button caps and SB and I call.

Flop comes Qd 7s 3s. SB bets out, I raise, button folds, SB raises all in. I call.

Turn and river are blanks.

My queens beat the SB's TT.

SB tells me I was wrong to call 3 cold (actually 2 if he paid attention) pre-flo
p and further that I was wrong to raise on the flop.

I actually thought that I should have raised pre-flop.

Any comments would be appreciated.

[Barry]

With only an MP limper I'd raise that preflop too, heck I might raise KQo too.

On the flop you have TP very good kicker and the 2nd nut flush draw, looks like a good hand to raise the flop with, especially since the button will be faced with calling 2 cold, a hard thing to do with AK or AQ.

[lockitup]

[ QUOTE ]

SB tells me I was wrong to call 3 cold (actually 2 if he paid attention) pre-flo
p and further that I was wrong to raise on the flop.

I actually thought that I should have raised pre-flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely raise preflop. Isolate what looks like a weak hand and maximize your position. But since you didn't... a case could be made for folding preflop after it's two bets back to you, with the button likely to cap, but in a loose-aggressive game, you should expect to see many hands three-betting from the SB (as you did). Especially an SB who's shortstacked and inclined to snipe at players after getting beat. Another note... the button could be making an aggressive play in the face of a couple of weak-looking limps. To my mind, this information adds up to a call.

The flop raise is automatic. You've got top pair and a huge draw. Even if you're behind, you figure to have lots of outs.

This pot is huge, so you have to do everything you can to win it. Namely, knock out the button. His fold sure looks like AK. I can't imagine you were sorry to see him go. Even with only three outs, he's still a threat.

As for the SB's comment... calmly and politely call over a chip runner and introduce the two.

[afish]

Folding preflop with a suited KQ would be insane. No hand can dominate a flush. Also, players get much more aggressive when they're shortstacked, so I wouldn't take the SB's three bet that seriously.

SB was a fool for (1) criticizing another player and (2) reraising on the flop when he's clearly beat and you clearly won't fold.

[Mike Gallo]

Preflop you could have capped.

The rest of the hand played itself.

Don't say anything. Just hope he goes into his pocket and pulls out more money.

The casinos have had a lot of bitter players down here lately.

~MG~

[elysium]

hi lou
you've got to raise pre-flop here.

[andyfox]

"SB tells me I was wrong to call 3 cold (actually 2 if he paid attention) pre-flop and further that I was wrong to raise on the flop."

It never ceases to amaze me why people feel the need to give lessons at the table, especially those who have just run out of chips.

I would have raised pre-flop. Normally, I would fold to two more bets, but the small blind's 3-bet must be discounted some since he was short-stacked.

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
No hand can dominate a flush

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Using your language, A /images/graemlins/heart.gifx /images/graemlins/heart.gif "dominates" K /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif (although dominates is technically incorrect).

2. Calling 2 more bets with the threat of a 3rd is is also incorrect with a "flush draw". The fact that your cards are K and Q makes it worse. You are almost certainly dominated, in the true sense of the word.

ALL1N

[ QUOTE ]
As for the SB's comment... calmly and politely call over a chip runner and introduce the two.

[/ QUOTE ]
Now, that's a good one. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Bokonon]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop raise is automatic. You've got top pair and a huge draw. Even if you're behind, you figure to have lots of outs.

This pot is huge, so you have to do everything you can to win it. Namely, knock out the button. His fold sure looks like AK. I can't imagine you were sorry to see him go. Even with only three outs, he's still a threat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am but a harmless newbie, so my agreement means less than naught -- but I agree. I think. I see a lot of people posting that you should raise on the flop in similar situations but I don't think the pot-odds for the prospective AK caller justify it. In other words, often it's overall +EV for you to get overcards to chase.

But in *this* case, with 15 bets in the pot before your raise, it'd be about worth it for him to chase even with just three outs. (actually, maybe not, as if he doesn't hold the ace of spades, and it falls, pairing him, he's still a loser, and he doesn't know it.)