10/20 Hands from Foxwoods this past weekend

[Barry]

Hand 1

Sat PM: At this time the game wasn’t great and one of the regular 20/40 grinders was sitting at the table wearing his sunglasses. He wasn’t wearing a hat because he wanted to show off his well coiffed silver hair. As is typical when these guys are “slumming” he was raising preflop a lot, and in general was trying to run over the table.

He’s UTG+1, I’m MP and the other player who is not well known to me was in CO. On to the hand:

Grinder open raises, folded to me, I call with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif, maybe a little loose against others, but not against him; briefly I even considered 3-betting, folded to CO who calls.

Flop is T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Grinder bets, I call, CO calls,

Turn is 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Same action, bet, call, call

River is 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Grinder grumbles about the last card and emphatically checks, I bet, CO raises, grinder folds, I 3-bet, CO calls

I show my hand, CO shows J8 of something for the rivered str8. Grinder turbo mucks and starts complaining about his runner runner bad beat. He asks me very condescendingly that “even if the flop came down JJK, you would still have been behind. Can you figure that one out?” I’m not sure that I believed that he had KK. Interestingly enough, a few minutes before he was commenting on the crowded room and said that it was all because of those “cyber kids” that watch WPT and play online and “don’t know anything”. He added “The subtleties of this game are beyond 90% of the population”. So, do you think he makes the top 10%? A little while later, he gets up and gets back into the 20/40 game, “where they play better”

Hand 2

Sunday late PM. I had just gotten back from a hour or so break and sat down with a fresh rack of reds at a juicy looking game with a few known fish as well as a few LAG’s. 1 very solid player is in the game and the open seat is directly to his right.

First orbit and I’m UTG+1 and open limp with Q /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif, solid player raises and its folded back to me and I call.

Flop is QJx rainbow, I check/call the flop.

Turn is an A, check, bet, checkraise, reraise(?), call

River is a T

I check call and he shows me KK for the runner, runner broadway.

What do you think of our play here, especially his turn 3-bet when he’s got to figure that he is behind?

[JimRivett]

Interesting post, these are the sort of situations which I am really working on in my own game.

Hand 1. Pre-flop, if I have my "A" game I fold to the UTG+1 raise. If I have my "B" game I 3 bet. My "C" game I call. I don't know if I call the flop bet here, you only have overcards and you have a player behind you.

Hand 2. Pre-flop, same as above "A" game fold, "B" game raise, "C" game call. Once I flop two pair, I'm gonna bet it and bet it.

Regards, Jim

[Barry]

In hand 1 I had a gutshot str8 draw and a back door flush, not "just overcards"

[Bandorn]

First Hand. I dont think he has got a big pocket pair. Sounds like he was trying to run over yuo and failed. Your calling with over cards is correct on flop. ON turn I might raise (semi_bluff) (representing trips) HE got to figure yuo have at least a pair maybe 2. I think at most he has got overcards.I think he was mad at himself, but trying to save face.

Hand 2. I think yuo played it right. The Turn reraise feels like a test of yuor hand strength. If yuo had been limping with AA, AJ, AQ OR KT and had hit big. He would expect a raise back ( yuor heads up). He might have been investing in some long term info on yuo specifically. (Its not the first time yuo have played him nor does it sound like the last)?

PS: warning MY 2 cents might not be worth the time to read. Im here trying to to Relearn forgotten skill and figure the best way is to post and see if i get shot down. LOL.

[Barry]

I did think about raising the turn as a semi-bluff, but I'm still not comfortable about picking the right places to do it yet. I've only done it a few times with both str8 and flush draws. Once a guy folded, and the other time I hit.

I have played a few times with this fellow and he knows JTG51 pretty well. I asked him about the hand later and he gave me his reasoning which I'll share with everyone later.

[ACPlayer]

Hand 1: I would raise the flop, if the c/o is a likely fold or raise the turn if he was not (specially with the great turn you got). That would improve the chances of winning if you hit one of your overcards rather than the main draws -- or even winning right away.

Hand 2: Solid seems like a fish.

[CrackerZack]

Too bad I missed both of these...

hand 1 I'd probably raise the turn. If "solid" is trying to run over the game (as I also see happen often when people are playing a lower level) he could even have weaker overcards than you do. Its very possible you could take it down there and if not, you have 12 outs to a winner (assuming no Axh which I think is safe). You're not getting the immediate odds on your call which I think means you should make a play at this pot on the turn.

Hand 2, I would've C/R'd the flop but that might be a function of playing so much online. No one seems to care what you do on the flop. I actually think I would consider going for the double on the turn in this situation but not sure if I would think that quickly. once 3-bet on the turn, I'd call it down also.

[CrackerZack]

getting ready for bed i thought quite a bit more about hand 2. I think you need to C/R the flop on this one. you open limped UTG, and the player to your right is solid, so this limits your hands to number of things he knows he can dominate (all the way down to ATo if he's likely to fold out the rest of the table with a raise). depending on the board texture (suits-wise) there is a limited number of hands you could have on the turn for this C/R, when you're 3-bet, there is even a smaller number he could have that you're ahead of. On the river, there are none. I know in the heat of battle I call this river, but in retrospect, there isn't a single hand he could have that I can beat. I much prefer the C/R on the flop and lead at the turn after giving it a lot of thought.

[andyfox]

"He wasn’t wearing a hat because he wanted to show off his well coiffed silver hair."

-I hate that. Was his last name Nebiolo?

"He added “The subtleties of this game are beyond 90% of the population”. "

-I hate that. Was his last name Hellmuth?

On hand 2, what did you put your opponent on that you called his turn 3-bet and his river bet?

Limping from early position and cold-calling with the likes of Q-J and K-J can get you into some trouble.

[Barry]

I called in hand 1 as I figured with this fellow, there was a good chance that I had at least overcards, if not a better hand. If I was going to play, I probably should have 3 bet preflop to get it heads up. Failing that, I should have either raised on the flop or the turn.

In hand 2, I limped in as it was a table where there were a lot multiway pots and you would get a lot of action if you hit, as I did on a few hands later on.

He told me later that he had decided go to showdown with the hand and he thought that my most likely holding was QJ, as I would have raised preflop with other hands that he might be behind, except for KT. As such he had 12 outs to win, I might laydown the hand and he would most likely get a free showdown. His plan was to bet if out if he hit and check behind if the river was a blank.

I'm still ahead of KK and AK and TT (although that holding wasn't very likely) on the turn so it was worth a call; my river call probably wasn't all that smart of an idea except that I got some decent information on his play for that $20 call. I changed seats a little while later to get across the table from him.