Is this weak/tight?

[TJD]

Hi all, had a hand tonight that I feel sure I made a complete pigs ear of. Your comments would be very much appreciated. I am a relative beginner and need all the help I can get. Please feel free to be honest, I will not be insulted.

I have AQo in UTG+1 $1/$2 game

UTG folds, I raise, MP, LP, SB and BB all come along.

Flop AJJ rainbow.

SB bets; BB calls.

I have no idea what to do! I consider raising but with a bet and a call into a PFR with a rainbow but with a pair showing, I am not sure.

I call!!!! ugh! I am not happy about this. I know nothing about the players.

Turn and river are blanks and SB bets each time

We lose MP on flop and LP on turn.

The showdown is SB, BB and me

What should I do on flop, turn, river please?

I asked a week ago for a definition of weak/tight since I do not understand what it means but did not get any "definitions".

Is this an example of it?

Could anyone attempt a definition?

Thanks for your time.

Trevor

[Tosh]

I believe weak tight is folding a hand as soon as you get a bit of resistance or if you have a pair and an overcard flops.

I think this is an example of passive play more than weak tight play. I think you should raise the flop or turn. He could be trying to throw you off of KK or QQ.

[ccwhoelse?]

weak-tight is not playing aggressively when you have something that very well could be the best hand, but not the obvious nuts. like making a flush with 78s and not raising the hell out of it.

[ QUOTE ]
I consider raising but with a bet and a call into a PFR with a rainbow but with a pair showing, I am not sure.


[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know where your playing, but i think at that limit players will usually not realize, consider or care about the action before the flop.

you should raise on the flop and see what everyone else does. but i think you are a huge dog to any Jack so you should be catious if it's 3-bet or SB keeps betting after you raise.

[jasonHoldEm]

This is passive not weak/tight (which is running away like a little girl if your opponent says "bet" or "raise").

I'd raise the flop and see what happens...there are a lot of hands he could be betting here, it doesn't mean he has a jack...he could have A4o and the BB could have KT for all you know...you're only going to find out if you raise it.

jHE

[slider77]

My question is if you raise on the flop - and say 1 bettor reraises - what do you do? Do you fold this hand in any situation?

[psychprof]

[ QUOTE ]
weak-tight is not playing aggressively when you have something that very well could be the best hand, but not the obvious nuts. like making a flush with 78s and not raising the hell out of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

How funny!! I'm new too, and just posted this exact situation (except I had a 9 high flush) before reading this thread. I guess that makes me a little girl. LOL

TJD,
Whether you play passive or weak, I think it is important to learn HOW to be aggressive before being agressive. I see too many players who play aggressively without a thought as to WHEN it is appropriate. I'm trying to learn how to judge circumstances that merit aggression, and then I'll start playing more strongly.

Also, I think maybe you and I have the same problem. We assume our opponent has the best possible hand (at least I do when I'm trying to figure out what he has). I'm starting to learn that just because pairs flop, it doesn't mean someone has trips.

I'm finding that playing strongly is the hardest step for me to take. I hope you find it easier than I do.
Prof

[clovenhoof]

I disagree a little with the other definitions. The emphasis is on the "weak", not on the "tight". Weak-tight means a person who plays tight (which isn't a bad thing), and who does not understand the value of his/her hands.

Keep in mind that uneducated players usually fall into one of two camps: live players who consistently over-value their hands, play too many, and play them too far, and overly conservative players who consistently under-value their hands, not playing enough and not playing them hard enough when they do play. They don't get fully paid for their hands, they give free cards or cheap draws too often, and never understand why they get outdrawn so often. One example of the "weak" is that weak-tight players, in my experience anyway, rarely have much understanding of the value of position.

In my view the best way to play the game when starting to learn it is to play fairly tightly before the flop, but throw caution to the wind after it. Aggressive play induces mistakes in others, and (let's face it) is more fun. Also, you'll learn more by being involved in hands than you will by folding your hands and watching from the sidelines.

As to this hand, you may well be in trouble, but you're not going to find out unless you raise. It's conceivable that he has AT or a pocket pair.

'hoof

[Mike Gallo]

I have not looked at any of the other answers yet.

I would have raised in that spot. Most players will probably want to check raise the prelop raiser. I also would raise because I thought I had the best hand. If he three bet me, or bet into me on the turn I would wonder if he had AJ.

For the record you didnt play this weak tight you played it like a calling station. A weak tight player would have folded.

If you can answer why you didnt raise, if it shows +EV for that exact situation, then who cares if you played it weak tight as long as you extracted the most amount of money. Sometimes calling an overaggressive opponents works out better than showing aggression. It all depends why you did it.

Have a reason for your decisions and the moves you make. If you called because you thought, if I raise I will lose him, it I call he will bet again. Then good decision.

Don't allow yourself to allow calling to become your default play because you don't know what else to do or feel afraid to raise.

~MG~

[TJD]

[ QUOTE ]
My question is if you raise on the flop - and say 1 bettor reraises - what do you do? Do you fold this hand in any situation?


[/ QUOTE ]

No! I call and see what turn brings. If it is not helful then I will probably fold to a bet if I do not know the SB.

I would not KNOW this was right but if my raise was an attempt to find out what was happening; I got the RR and then got a bet on the turn, I would probably have to assume that I HAD found out. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Of course this lays me open to exploitation by a thinking player or a maniac. But would a thinking player do this with 3 other players still in the pot?

If I remain "strong" after a RR and the turn bet, staying around till the end, there is surely a large chance I am now being a calling station and just contributing to SB's retirement fund.

Isn't this game hard? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Trevor

[TJD]

[ QUOTE ]
Have a reason for your decisions and the moves you make. If you called because you thought, if I raise I will lose him, it I call he will bet again. Then good decision.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing as glorious as that I am afraid. I called all the way because:-

a) I had no idea where I was
b) I was very reluctant to raise, get RR and STILL not know where I was
c) I was not prepared to throw away top 2 pair with 2 outs to a FH when I could be ahead.

Pathetic??

Trevor

[TJD]

SB had TT; BB had Axo, so I won.

Thanks for the replies. Yup I should certainly have raised the flop. I would have bet out from SB with ATs (I would have called the raise with that PF), so it was silly of me to assume there must be a Jack out there. Of course, other players standards in this game for calling a PFR are probably less than mine in general so that is even more reason to raise.

If I had been RR I would probably have check/called to the end with top 2 pair. Is that too passive?

Thanks

Trevor

[onegymrat]

Hi Trevor,

As previously mention, it is good to play "tight". You'll rarely find a tight player who is a long-term loser. The term "weak-tight" is a crude way to describe someone who plays in a tight/passive manner. This means one who is very selective in what cards they play, usually only premium hands, and does not use much aggression unless they have the nuts(for they always fear someone has better). Playing passive can leave a lot of money at the table, which means less profit for you.

It seems the advice given to you so far is to raise the flop bet. Before you do this next time, you need to understand why you are raising. You need to decide right away whether you feel he has the jack or not. If he does, you need perfect-perfect to beat him, which is very difficult to get. If he doesn't, then you are way ahead of him. How does one find out without top pro hand reading skills? You raise to see where you are. Remember, he doesn't know if you have a jack either. If he doesn't, you'll win a lot more money because a pocket pair will call you down. If he does have that case jack, you'll hear about it right away, or he may check-raise the turn, in which case, you will have to decide if you must bail. You were the PFR, which means you assumed control of the betting. Get that control back unless someone gives you a reason not to.

By the way, it is not silly for you to think a jack could be out there. It would be ignorant for you not to believe that. But you must play such a hand strongly. You will still profit in the long run. Good luck.