Back to Back TT

[rharless]

Please provide your opinions on the following two hands.

Colorado 2-5. Table is very loose and passive, ideal, really. I am excellently positioned for this type of table, after all the loose players, with the three players who have some wits about them playing close after me. I am running well and I am up 40+ bets but I don't think anyone has really noticed, because there's lots of chips on the table.

My first thought is both hands were straightforward, but I'm sure that others of 2+2 will see things differently. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

hand #1 Blind posts a live $5 blind. UTG, UTG+1 fold. I have TcTs and I make it $10. One Average player calls, one tighty-wannabe calls. (TW plays "tight" but has constantly called my raises with dominated hands, and is frustrated b/c I have just "barely outkicked" his hands the last three times I preflop raised.) A plain-ole-loosey calls and the blind (loosey $5 blinder) calls. Five to the flop for $50.

Flop: Qs 8c 5d

Check, I bet, Avg calls, TW calls, other two fold.

TW's call is disconcerting... on the previous hands, he never tested his top pair against me -- only call call call. He is, however, clearly frustrated.

I have played with Avg a lot and she has told me several times "you scare me." She only raises me with monsters.

Turn: [Qs 8c 3d] 5c

I decide that I don't like that both of these two particular players called and I check.

Avg checks. TW now bets. I fold, Avg calls.


hand #2 Very next hand. I get Tc Td. The blind is $2. UTG folds and I made it $7. Avg calls. Tight Player in MP makes it $12. Two looseys call. I call, Avg calls. Five to the flop for $60.

Flop: Qs Js 8c

We check to Tight who bets, and everyone calls $5

Turn: [Qs Js 8c] 7s

We check to Tight who bets, one loosey folds, one calls, I fold, Avg calls.

Thoughts?

Results later...

[CMangano]

On Hand 2 I think you either bet the flop or check fold. You don't have the odds to draw to your T, plus you probably don't want to see a T on this board. With the raiser to your left, I would bet out and see how he responds. If he raises you are probably behind, but he may knock out hands with a 9 giving you a better chance of winning should a T come.

[rharless]

I'm not looking for the T; I'm hoping for the 9 on the turn. Even with 15:1 immediate odds, though, I guess it's hard to defend drawing to a gutshot straight when the board is two-tone and a possible flush draw out there.

If I do get the T on the turn, of course I continue but hope for the boat.

If a small blank falls on the turn, and if I would again be "closing" [1] the action (i.e. only Avg left to act after I call), I would have called again hoping for the gutshot.

[1] Avg player has never checkraised that I know of, in the two or so years I have played with her. She's as ABC as you can get.

[CMangano]

I still like betting out on the flop, this flop could have easily missed the raiser and by just calling you don't know if you are ahead or not.

[rharless]

Preflop, I am already 90%+ confident that I am behind to AA/KK. The vast majority of "tight Colorado 2-5 players" will NOT reraise the preflop bet to $12 with even QQ or AKs. Plus this guy had been at the table for over an hour and had not once raised preflop, much less re-raised.

The only possibility of a raising hand that I currently beat would be AK, and he is Tight-ABC-not too aggressive -- i.e. he is not going to bet AK on the flop AND on the turn into four other players. There is SOME chance I am ahead of him, but it is a very slim chance and I will find out if I am ahead, regardless.

Even if I am ahead of HIM, I could easily be behind one of the other three players in the hand, and they aren't going to fold on the flop if they caught any piece of it.

[Robk]

In the game you describe I would limp with TT in those spots.

[rharless]

Is it better to limp when I can shut out the other tough players with an EP raise?

I don't know the answer, just wondering.

I actually did limp with it in EP twice earlier in the session, both times flopping a set and getting very little action. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Perhaps I just need to improve my timing so that I can manage to flop sets when I raise, and flop Q-high when I limp. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Bob T.]

I think that you were behind on both hands, and made good decisions on the hand to get out cheaply.

[rharless]

Hand 1, TW bet the river again and Avg called and he showed JJ. Avg did not show. I think TW actually would not "usually" over-call my flop bet with JJ on a Q-board, but he was frustrated. My check on the turn is his signal that his JJ is good.

In hindsight, had I believed it reasonably possible that neither caller had a Q -- a turn bet would have them folding often enough that it would have been profitable. I was just "really sure" that one of these two held a Q. I can easily pick a more worthwhile hand to lose sleep over, though. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hand 2, Tight ABC has KK as expected (no spade). The river (a blank) was checked all around, and his overpair KK held up against the remaining two players. Still not sure if I should be drawing for a gutshot on a two-tone board getting 15:1 (note, also without the doubled bets on the turn and river to rake more bets, if I hit), but I'm going to guess that decision is fairly close.

[Robk]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it better to limp when I can shut out the other tough players with an EP raise?

[/ QUOTE ]


It's best to raise when you can shut out almost everyone. If 4 tight players will fold and 4 loose ones will call you still shouldn't raise. But if your raise will usually narrow the field to one or two opponents then go ahead.