Malmuth's advice about calling with AQ

[Ralle]

In a recent post Mason Malmuth said "Calling with AQ when it has already gone to three bets (or more) is terrible." Is this necessarily true?

Suppose I'm in the cutoff with AT. An aggressive middle position player opens with a raise and it's folded to me. In many games I would consider reraising him, since 1) I may very well have the best hand, 2) the button is likely to fold even if he holds a slightly better hand, 3) the blinds are forced to fold any speculative hands. So this reraise is likely to make it a heads-up contest, where we share the blind money with me in position, possibly with a strong hand.

But if the button holds e.g. AQ, wouldn't he be better of capping the pot in this example? Or is the risk to high for him that he may be up against AK and a big pair?

[CrackerZack]

if you're 3-betting with AT he better be very loose aggressive. Capping with AQ requires a very loose raiser and a very loose 3-bettor...and I mean very loose.

[Ralle]

I should get me some simulation software. This would be a perfect thing to analyze empirically.

[OffTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
In a recent post Mason Malmuth said "Calling with AQ when it has already gone to three bets (or more) is terrible." Is this necessarily true?


[/ QUOTE ]

It's not necessarily true, but I have to agree he is right in general. AQ is just too likely to be dominated in this situation to make playing for 3 bets a good call. You are right in saying it's not absolute of course, you always have to be aware of the landscape in your current game, and perhaps a situation like the one you described is likely with particular players, but as a general rule, lay that sucker down...

OffTilt

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[andyfox]

Mason said calling with A-Q is terrible; you're talking about capping.

There are probably some rare situations where you know player A is raising with any junk and player B knows it and would 3-bet player A with weak hands. But even players raising with any junk get good hands and players who know they're raising with any junk and are raising to isolate get good hands too. And there are other players still to act as well. In most situation, I agree with Mason: it's terrible.

[Ralle]

What do you guys think about the initial reraise with AT?

[Nottom]

I think its fine if you think it will get you heads up against the loose raiser.

[ML4L]

Hey Ralle,

I'm not sure where Mason's quote is from so I can't double-check the context, but note that he says that CALLING is terrible, while you advocate 4-betting. I'm guessing that Mason wouldn't be in favor of the 4-bet either, but he'd have to like it more than coldcalling...

And as for the situation that you outlined, you would have to be certain that the raising standards of the two players were weak and that your cap would allow you to control the hand postflop for a 4-bet to be correct...

ML4L

[CrackerZack]

I still don't like it very much. he'd have to be loose for sure. You really really don't want to run ATs, AJ+ or pairs TT or higher. You're hoping for a hand you dominate and there are just very few that will be raised here. You're a dog to underpairs although its a small one and no weaker aces and few weaker Ts that will be raised by any sane player.

[OffTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
I think its fine if you think it will get you heads up against the loose raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, but you better be damn sure it will get you heads up, because the thing is most guys with AJ, AQ, and of course AK WILL CALL the 3 bets cold and you are in some trouble.

OffTilt

------------------------------------------
Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
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[CrackerZack]

Just to make sure... you 2 do know ATo is relatively crap right? In the bizarre games at party where generally any Ace is played its less crap but in any normal game, any action you got on this hand means you're in trouble. This hand may look nice, like KJ, but its one to get you in a world of hurt.

[OffTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to make sure... you 2 do know ATo is relatively crap right? In the bizarre games at party where generally any Ace is played its less crap but in any normal game, any action you got on this hand means you're in trouble. This hand may look nice, like KJ, but its one to get you in a world of hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is crap, I would never try something like that on Party because it's doubtful I'd get heads up. I might (very rarely) in a tight game where I stood a good chance of going headsup, and if an Ace falls I'm representing AK. This would be a very rare situation though.

[Ed Miller]

I was going to ignore this little thread, but I couldn't resist commenting on this:

...and if an Ace falls I'm representing AK.

Why on earth would you want to represent AK on an Ace-high flop when you actually hold AT?

[Ralle]

"You're playing $40-$80 hold'em. You're one seat to the right of the dealer button (so you act before the button). You hold A® 10´. A loose and aggressive player in seat No. 6 opens by raising the $40 blind, putting in $80. The next two players fold. It's up to you. What's your most profitable strategy?
(A) Reraise to $120
(B) Fold
(C) Call $80
[...]
My answer is (A). Usually reraise to $120. [...]"

See his Quiz No. 1 (http://www.poker1.com/newsmanager/templates/mculib_quizes.asp?articleid=13&zoneid=13) Question No. 2.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

In the example you give, OBVIOUSLY AQ should call if he knew what you had. The problem is that you don't know what the other players have, and by the time it makes it to three bets, AQ is usually about fifty miles behind. Mason is not talking about unusual circumstances, he's talking about a legitimate raise and a legitimate reraise. You can always find exceptions if you dig hard enough, but if you're in a typical game, and it's three bets to you, call with AQ at your own risk, you've been warned....

al