KK

[j.k.]

10/20 at Mirage, good game...couple of decent players but mostly passive calling station types.

I get K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif UTG and raise, two calling stations call, a loose but has a clue calls (LC), BB calls (he had just sat down so I don't know about him).

Flop is 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. BB bets, I raise, we lose the two calling stations, LC makes it three and BB folds. I don't really see LC reraising on a draw (but don't rule it out), so I'm may be looking at a set or another over pair. Back to BB who folds, I just call.

Turn is J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I bet again, LC raises again.
Clear fold against someone who doesn't get much out of line?

[bruce]

Difficult question to answer. As the limits get bigger you begin to see more players raise the turn with the intention of checking the river unless they improve their hand. I think this really boils down to your read of him. In general in limit holdem especially against relatively unkown players if I'm not sure what to do I will pay them off. Headsup with an overpair in my eyes is a tough hand to laydown.

Bruce

[elysium]

hi jk
clear call. your call closes the action. your opponent may also know enough to bet AdKd or other diamond draw like this as a semi-bluff. you have KK. you're heads up. i don't think that you realize it but, all of these conditions allow you to call any raise. your bet should have been made with the priviledge of being able to call, along with the value of betting, as reasons for betting; not bet duh. you've got to see the raise and call of the raise here jk. he's gonna raise his diamonds. you've got to know this. the diamond draw means that you must bet, and interestingly not just to make the draw pay, although another good reason to bet. you can easily call any raise here because of the emerging draw. also free show-down and stopping a river a bluff considerations figure somewhere in the mix.

[j.k.]

Given that my read that the player in question wouldn't reraise a draw on the flop, nor would he raise again with a hand like A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on the turn, I believe this should have been a fold. Perhaps, however, it is not as close as I originally believed.
The river brought the third diamond, but I was prepared to call anyway. Good for me, he checked behind on the river. For a second I thought I was good, but then he showed 66 for the flopped set. Guess I should have trusted my read (if I had a nickle for everytime I've said that....)

[elysium]

hi jk
you can almost never put your opponent on a set. and this guy jk, everthing posted about him gives your KK considerble value. while you may not want to get into a raising war, many good players would have lost more than you did here. your read was fine. you said he was a good loose player in essence and you can't lay it down to them jk.

[DrSavage]

I think it's a clear call. You have sufficient pot odds and LC can have a whole range of hands that you beat (AJh,QQ for example) and if you are beat you still have outs. I call the turn and call the river unless maybe an ace falls.