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View Full Version : Top pair, but the Board is Paired


asdf1234
09-01-2003, 01:46 AM
Party 1/2 game

I'm dealt K /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif in EMP, UTG limps, UTG +1 folds, I limp, next player limps, two folds, cutoff, button and blinds come along.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Checked to me, I bet, CO and button calls, everybody else folds.

Turn: 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I bet, CO folds, button raises, I call.

River: 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif
I check, button bets, I fold.

I can't see this being anything but a slowplayed six or possibly a spiked three for threes full, so I checkfolded the river. The button did not appear tricky or particularly bright.

JTG51
09-01-2003, 02:12 AM
When you call the turn raise you must think there's a chacne you are ahead, you certainly aren't getting near the odds to try to spike a K. If that's true, you have to call the river. Calling a raise on the turn heads up with a made hand then folding to a blank on the river is basically never going to be correct.

Make your decision on the turn. Either fold to the turn raise or call the river.

Ian M.
09-01-2003, 02:20 AM
What would you do in this situation JTG? Personally I think I would call it down but I think I pay people off a little too much..

JTG51
09-01-2003, 02:49 AM
The decision would be based heavily on what I knew about the player. Against some players I'd 3-bet, against others I'd fold. Against an unknown player I'd most likely call down.

anatta
09-01-2003, 03:51 AM
When you get raised on the turn with top pair or overpair, there are many factors to consider. This is a difficult part of the game, and developing your skills in this area will really improve your results. Before I get to some of them, as JTG said, when you call the turn, its almost always with the intension of calling the river. So its a two bet decision.

An obviously important factor is "Who raised?". If he is aggressive and tricky, or if he thinks you can make big laydowns, call down more . If he raises mediocre hands for a free showdown (rare at lower limits) or if he likes to semi-bluff raise (similarly rare at lower limits), be more inclined to continue playing. Look at the board. Does it contain any reasonable draws that a good player might be getting tricky with? Players will get more tricky heads-up than in a multi-way pot. Finally, pot size is important, too.

I don't know if I would continue on in your case. I count 8 big bets in the pot after he raises. Calling the turn and the river means you are investing 2 bets to win an 11 bet pot. With your two outs, you have to win about 14% of the time. Is this player capable of making this play with KJ? 77? Nothing at all? I think almost all the time against normal low-limit opponents, you are going to be shown the hand he is representing.

On a final note, the desire to play on, to call, is emotionally a pretty strong one. Its often tough to fold, especially when the flop was so promising. But if your read tells you are a very likely beat with little chance to improve, you must fold.

nichtgut
09-01-2003, 04:51 AM
I think you should raise PF.

But the way you played it, I still would have called it down. I don't see myself folding this hand on the river. I might even reraise the turn.

Homer
09-01-2003, 11:13 AM
Ahhhh, bad river fold. Either fold immediately to the turn raise or call it down. What were you looking for on the river? If you think you are behind a 6, you don't have odds to call to try to spike a river K. If you think you're ahead of a weaker K, then folding the river is bad.

-- Homer