2 Pre-flop Questions

[rayrns]

Poker Stars: $1/2 I am just trying out this level for the second time but do see some players from the .50/$1 level where I have been playing.

Question 1. I am in LMP with 6-6. UTG+2 (LEP)raises, folded to me. I fold. With 4 players behind me I could get caught in a cap calling situation by the time it gets back to me.

Question 2: I am in SB with A-Qs. LEP open raises, folded to LMP who re-raises. Folded to me. I folded.

Were these fold's good. I found it hard to lay them down because of the great hands they can make.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

These were both good folds.

66 needs five opponents to be played, as a general rule. You weren't likely to have the multiway action you needed, plus, as you stated, getting reraised was another concern.

The AQ hand should of course be folded very quickly against a raise and a reraise when you're in the SB. You could burn your cards as you toss them into the muck if you like, it's worth considering. It makes good hands, sure, good second best hands against a double raise when out of position. I wouldn't even call a double raise on the button with AQ unless it was two maniacs. For that matter, I will often fold it even for a single raise if the raiser is fairly solid.

al

[GrinningBuddha]

The 66 simply wasn't getting the odds it needed to play, good fold.

The AQs would have needed a couple of cold callers to make it worthwhile, and even then you'll probably still end up making a 2nd best hand, as Al explained. I do hate folding Big Chick as it seems to be one of my better performing hands (on Party, anyway), but in situation like this, it must be done.

[lunchmeat]

IMO these were good folds. In the first hand you should probably fold even if the raiser had just called, assuming that everyone else still folds. In the second hand I think you did a good job of discarding a hand that's tough to get rid of.

[Magic Mark]

[ QUOTE ]
These were both good folds.

For that matter, I will often fold it even for a single raise if the raiser is fairly solid.

al

[/ QUOTE ]


Against a single raise and holding A-Q, would you be more inclined to call if on the button (rather than in SB)?

-- Mark

[Mike Gallo]

The 66 simply wasn't getting the odds it needed to play, good fold.

Small pairs rely on implied odds to show a profit. Not the immediate odds the pot offers you.

You can play the small pair for a raise if you feel confident your opponents will pay off when you hit your set, and your opponent can not release an over pair.

Michael

[Mike Gallo]

Question 2: I am in SB with A-Qs. LEP open raises, folded to LMP who re-raises. Folded to me. I folded.

I dont agree with this fold. If the raise came from an early position player I could understand your motive for folding, but still might not agree with it.

Lets reassess the situation. A middle postion player open raises. He could have a lot of hands that you can beat, a few you cannot. How would you consider this players raising standards? A player one to the cutoff reraises. He could have a pocket pair or overcards and want to isolate the preflop raiser. Did this player play over aggressively? You hold AQ suited and fold. You could have reraised in that situation, you very well could have the best hand.

If you held AQ offsuit, player dependent you might have made a good fold.

I am suprised to see how many players would fold this hand.

~MG~

[Ian M.]

Personally, I would fold AQs here too. Possibly dominated and in the worst position at the table. Its close though. If I was sitting on the button facing 2 cold I would probably call or raise depending on what I thought of the raisers. I dont think I would call 2 cold with AQo anywhere.

[me454555]

You guys are forgetting a key point that the poster made. this is a $1/2 online game. Most players I have met aren't real sharks. For the most part, these guys raising standards are rather loose and call down almost anything. No way I fold AQs here.

As for 66, I'd probobly call here and fold if its capped before it comes back to me. My logic, 66 is a pretty good hand and most of the people at these tables raise too often.

[Ed Miller]

As for 66, I'd probobly call here and fold if its capped before it comes back to me. My logic, 66 is a pretty good hand and most of the people at these tables raise too often.

This is probably the worst possible way to play this hand. You call two bets before the flop first in after a raise (mistake one.. calling first in after a raise is basically never right in holdem) and then you fold for the same two bets when a) the pot is bigger, and b) it is clear that you will get action after the flop? You should be folding 66 in this spot and perhaps occasionally be 3-betting a very loose raiser. Folding when it is two bets back to you after you call the first time is just silly.

You should also be folding AQ, suited or not, for a raise and a 3-bet reflexively... you shouldn't even have to think about it. AQs no good... especially out of position. Not close.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I am suprised to see how many players would fold this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not just the hand in question, brother, it's the position. You'll be out of position for the rest of the hand. On the button I would feel differently and if I could get 1 cold caller, I'd cold call with this hand myself.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

"Against a single raise and holding A-Q, would you be more inclined to call if on the button (rather than in SB)?"

Absolutely.

I'd still be inclined to go with my assessment of the raiser tho. There are certain very tight players whom I will always fold AQ to. These are players who I NEVER see raise with anything less than AK or a pair. True, these are not especially common players, so if you see me call a raise with AQ, don't go running to get a copy of my old posts. Also, against online players, I will fold AQ LESS often, because of the unknown factor. However, I'll still be much more inclined to call if on the button than in the SB.

No limit disclaimer:

Another thing I didn't really talk about is limit vs. no limit. I tend to play little to no limit hold'em online, so it's mostly no limit. In no limit, I'll almost always fold AQ to a raise unless there are special circumstance, i.e. a steal-raise, a maniac, short handed, or late in a tourney. You stand to lose much more if you're wrong in no limit, so I'm much more careful. In a live limit game, what I said above stands, as most of this conversation has been regarding limit holdem, not no limit.

al