I always fail the AQ test :)

[Brian]

It's true /images/graemlins/frown.gif Here's the hand:

Table is a little shorthanded (7 players). Dealt A /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif on the button. Don't have a read on any of the players at the table except one (who I will get to in a second). UTG calls, EP raises, folded to me and I re-raise. SB automatically caps it, and had just re-raised someone pre-flop with K6o (went on to flop two pair). So this cap means little to me coming from him, but it did unfortunately deny me the opportunity to see whether or not the EP would have capped it himself or merely called my 3 bet.

BB folds, UTG calls all in for only another sb and a half, EP calls and I call. 4 to the flop for a 10sb main pot and 4.5sb side pot.

Flop: T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, EP bets, I raise, both call. 3 to the Turn for 10.5sb side pot (5bb)

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Both check to me, I bet, both call. 3 to the River for 8bb.

River: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Both check to me again, I bet, both call.

From the topic of this post, I am sure most of you are well aware of the results. But, my question is, is there any way I could've gotten away from this hand?

For those who couldn't guess, EP had AK for the win. Maniac in SB had A4, and the all-in guy had K8, not that that matters.

-Brian

[LKJ]

I think you played the hand fine. You have no read on the EP player, so you're not going to fold AQs to him when you're on the button, nor will you be afraid of the maniac in the SB.
Then, your ace flops, and one raise from you on the flop sends the preflop raiser into check-call mode. You can't possibly put him on AK. If the SB is a maniac and is just calling you, you've obviously got him beat.
I agree with your play on each street.

[elysium]

hi brian
in my opinion, you could check down the turn. on the turn, if the EP bets into you you're better off folding.

the interesting thing here though is what happens those times you check it down, and the EP bets into on the river. now, against a solid EP, you should fold on the turn when he bets into you in this situation partly because of the cost of calling the river as well. but if calling that turn bet by the EP put you all-in, would it then be correct to call? is that the same situation as checking down the turn and getting bet into on the river? if you checked down the turn, should you call one bet to you on the river? how have the odds changed slightly to make calling on the river correct? or have those odds improved enough? i think you could call the dang thing on the river if you checked down the turn. the odds in the case of AK will never be high enough to warrant that call. but the odds that perhaps it isn't AK betting into you increase a little, oh i've got to believe.

good post brian. the way you played it doesn't touch on the more puzzling aspect of 'what happens when you check it down and then get bet into by the EP?'. that question is a very tough one brian, and from time to time it has toyed with my conscience. i think calling is ok, but i don't know that it is. it's not a matter so much of pot odds. it's a matter of whether the odds of AK being out against you have gone down a little when you check it down and EP bets on the river in this situation. i don't know, but if the answer is out there, i welcome any replys. have the odds of AK being out against you gone down? i would call.

[Jeffage]

"hi brian
in my opinion, you could check down the turn. on the turn, if the EP bets into you you're better off folding. "

I think checking down the turn is very weak tight thinking esp. with the heart draw out. You likely have the best hand and need to protect it by betting.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

Well played, I like your play on every street. If someone hit a flush or some freak two pair yet never raised on the flop or turn, you are in the right game. And there passivity makes the river bet even better...they will often call you with worse hands but will not charge you the most when they have you beat. Don't be results oriented--you played fine IMO.

Jeff

[Clarkmeister]

There are very few players who's range of open raising hands is so small that you should muck AQs.

[Homer]

I always fail the AQ test

It's been a while since I read the article, but I believe Feeney is discussing folding AQo to a legitimate raise. This situation is somewhat different since you have AQs and the raise isn't necessary legitimate. The player you refer to as EP is only three off the button -- his raise could be made with a wide range of hands from this position after a single limper, even moreso because the limper is about to go all-in.

I think your play in this hand was fine, including the bet on the river. If EP had AK or AA I would think you would of heard from him by now. More likely is that he has AQ or AJ or a big pocket pair that refuses to lay down. Note that it is almost certain that he didn't make a flush. Additionally, you have a maniac who will call you down with a wide range of hands, which should push you even more towards betting. Heads-up, a check could possibly be correct, especially if EP would go into a shell with AK, but with an additional player who will pay you off with junk, it isn't wrong to bet.

-- Homer

[elysium]

hey brian, jeff
well, jeff's right. some other post had an EP solid and i was basing my thread on that; a solid EP. i reread it and nowhere did you list the EP as being solid.

but then what are you asking brian? what else can you do with this thing? you played it perfectly, but a zombie could do just as well. you've got cards, you've got chips. figure it out for yourselves.

my thread stands though, when facing a solid EP in this same situation. things go from virtual auto-play like you have here, to virtual auto-fold on the turn when that EP bets out. no, clark will never make that lay-down and jeff will make it sometimes, but not often, on the river. i recommend that you call any flop reraise, but check-fold the turn.

well, i didn't think this up myself, and when i first heard about it, i was surprised. but i did learn, albeit the hard way, about AQ in this situation, when facing an EP solid flop reraiser. of course if your top pair is the Q, (and that's what your hoping for), you're sitting pretty again.

and of course, your A top pair is good against any non-solid. sorry for the confusion.