another newbie poster, a couple of hands for critique.

[Requeim]

Hello everyone, been a lurker for a couple of months, first time posting, I've been mainly playing multi-tables 2/4 and 3/6 at party. I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time to look over these hands, I appreciate all comments, especially looking to weed out my weak-tight tendenacies.

Hand 1(typical party 3/6):

I'm dealt A /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the SB, 2 EP callers, 1MP caller, CO and button calls, and I raise out of the SB(questionable raise here?, I would've just called with AQo), BB folds, and all call, 6 to the flop.

Flop:
7 /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif10 /images/graemlins/club.gif(i'm not liking it already),
its checked to the CO who bets, I call along with 3 others, 5 to the turn.

Turn:
J /images/graemlins/heart.gif, its checked to the CO who bets and I fold, only 1 other caller. River comes 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif and the CO takes it with 2 pair, jacks and tens. Should I have raised from the SB? folded on the flop? bet out on the flop?

Hand 2(typical party 3/6),

I'm dealt pocket 6's on the SB, CO-1 and the button calls, I complete, 4 to the flop.

Flop: 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, I bet out my middle set and all folds, I wasn't going to slowplay my middle set with 3 others and a flush draw on board. Was there a way I could've extracted more money out of this hand?

[GrinningBuddha]

Hand 1: Good raise preflop (don't be scared to raise AQo here too sometimes). Given the draw-happy flop, I check-fold here most of the time. Make the 7 a /images/graemlins/heart.gif, I'll take one off. Good fold on the turn.

Hand 2: Perfect. You had the misfortune of getting a strong hand with no competition. It happens. Next hand. You'd feel really foolish giving a free card to the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif who makes his flush on the river. Doh!

[LKJ]

Hand 1:
To me, your raise from the SB is absolutely correct. Your hand could easily be ahead of the field, and if it isn't, it's very likely still two overcards to a low/medium pocket pair, which gives you fine odds to raise with this many players in.
That said, I wouldn't advocate taking it any further than the flop, with the cards that came. No K came, so you still have overcards, and the flop isn't coordinated, but...two clubs means you may be down to four outs (if that...bettor could easily have QT or AT). If there was a backdoor flush possibility, or even a rainbow board, I'd call (or even bet out) with my overcards, but as it was, your odds of taking this pot down with the flop that came aren't any good. I know it sucks to raise preflop, then fold to a single bet, but I think in this case it's better to just bail and pick a better spot to put your money in. That said, you called and picked up a gutshot draw, still have your overcards, and now you fold to one bet? Now you're on three outs to the nuts, four more to top pair with a flushless board, and three more possible outs in the Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, K /images/graemlins/club.gif, and A /images/graemlins/club.gif. By my calculations, you're getting 9.5-1 to call the turn bet. Personally, if I had taken the hand this far, I'd have made the call here. Others may disagree.
So, in my opinion, your preflop raise was dead on, but your flop and turn decisions were on the wrong side of marginal.

Hand 2:
You're absolutely right not to slowplay your set. Unfortunate that everyone folded, I hate it when that happens too, but...don't question yourself here, your play was straightforward and correct.

[gonores]

Welcome to the boards, Requeim.

Hand 1

Raising from the blinds with AQ (suited or not) is definitely not a mistake, and lately I have found myself making this raise about 80-90% of the time. It's just too sweet to drag a pot after you trap the field into getting 3 more BBs into the pot before anyone sees the flop.

There is nothing wrong with check-calling the flop/

On the turn, I think you have too many outs to give up just yet. You have overcards and a gut shot, so you have anywhere from 3 to 10 outs and you are getting ~10:1 on your call. Peel one off.

Hand 2

You played it perfectly. It's not as much fun to drag a small pot with a monster than it is to drag a big one, but dragging a small pot is WAY more fun than losing the pot after you gave everyone a free card, a diamond comes on the turn, and then another one comes on the river and you lose to a runner-runner flush.

On Party, it has gotten to the point that I will only consider a slowplay if I flop the nut flush or a boat. Even then, monsters get enough action to warrant playing them fast.

By raising pre-flop in hand 1 and betting the flop in hand 2, you are showing some strong signs that you will be a profitable player. Good luck to you.

Doug

[asdf1234]

First hand is fine, but if you're going to call the flop, you might as well call the turn as well, since you picked up outs, and three are to the nuts. This is a spot where I get into trouble myself, raising before the flop and then I tend to continue recklessly despite the fact that the flop completely bricks.

Second hand is also good. Too bad you didn't make any money, but in general, it's a bad idea to slowplay sets. You don't want to give diamonds a free card and you certainly don't want somebody to catch running diamonds to crush you. If you've got aggressive players in late position, however, you could go for a checkraise, but my preferred play would be betting.

[Homer]

<font color="blue">Hand 1</font>

Flop - Check-fold. The flop completely missed you. You are getting immediate odds of 13:1 on the call, but:

- There are players left to act behind you who could raise

- You could be drawing nearly dead against a straight

- Ac and Qc may not be outs, as they could make someone a straight

- Any A or Q may not be an out, since they may make another player two-pair

Turn - Call if the players left to act are not likely to checkraise. You will be getting at least 9:1 on the call, with 10 potential outs. If you have at least 5 outs then a call is in order. I think this will be the case most of the time, as you have 3 definite outs to the nuts (non-club K), and 4 non-club Q's or A's with which to make top-pair (these won't always make your hand best, but I wager that they will more than half the time). Again, this is all under the assumption that the players left to act on the turn are non-tricky, betting when they have it and checking when they don't. If there's any chance that a check-raise is forthcoming, dump it.


<font color="blue">Hand 2</font>

Played fine. Sometimes I'll checkraise if my opponents in late position are the type to bet when checked to, but usually I'll just bet out as I want to start collecting and don't want to give any free cards, especially on a two-tone board.

-- Homer

[rkiray]

You should definitely call the turn. There are 9.5 BBs in the pot and you probably have 10 outs. So you are a 36:10 dog, or 3.6:1. So you have a huge overlay even if some of your outs arn't good.

[Mike Gallo]

I'm dealt A Q on the SB, 2 EP callers, 1MP caller, CO and button calls, and I raise out of the SB(questionable raise here?,

I don't see anything wrong with that. You most likely have the best hand. Most players will call for one more bet, and you have given players with large unsuited cards reverse implied odds.

its checked to the CO who bets, I call along with 3 others, 5 to the turn.

Did you consider a check raise? Perfect spot for it. Did you question what his bet means here? He could have the nut flush draw along a pair. If he has the nut draw, then you both have an ace. Think about how this can impact your future play. You need to raise also to see where you stand. You raised preflop, so a check raise would appear natural.

its checked to the CO who bets and I fold, only 1 other caller.

I do not agree with the fold. I will allow others to comment on my decision. You could have check raised or bet out there. I like folding better than calling, however I do not agree with the fold.

On to hand two......./images/graemlins/crazy.gif


Was there a way I could've extracted more money out of this hand?

For this hand no, however look at the big picture. Think down the road when someone had AQ and raises you and someone with the flush draw calls. The flush hits you fill and the board has paired giving the AQ top pair top kicker.

Post about how you would extract the most from that hand.

Do not become a cautionary tale for people not to bet a vunerable hand.

Question for you...have you ever read Sklanskys "Getting the Best of It"? If not I suggest you purchase it and read the chapters that deal with the 8 mistakes a poker player can make and the chapter on the three horsed race.

Michael

[Requeim]

I appreciate all the responses, please continue being blunt, I need it. For my last 5000 hands at party, I saw the flop about 23% of the time, including from the blinds, I find that value betting on the river is still tricky, a lot of sandbagging and slowplaying. Just about to finish a session, I'll post a few more hands for critique. Thanks again for all the responses.

[Ed Miller]

Hand 1:

Yes, raise AQs from the blind and it's not close. Raising with AQo is close, but probably preferable. You should have check-folded on the flop... notice that this flop is very coordinated (two flush and three to a straight) and decidedly not your hand. You have nothing on a scary flop. Check-fold. Not close. BUT on the turn, you pick up a gutshot and all of a sudden you actually have a hand (two overcards and a gutshot is a hand). You should have called on the turn.

Hand 2:

Sometimes your oppponenets don't have anything. Sucks to be you. But just make sure that your bet from the blind is a bluff there sometimes (Q-rag-rag is a pretty good flop to bluff at in a small pot like that).

[Ed Miller]

Guys, Homer is a fantastic poster. You guys should read everything he writes.

[Ed Miller]

Checkraising this flop is a very bad idea. You have no hand at all on a very coordinated flop in a large field, out of position. If there ever was a time to fold, this is it.

[Mike Gallo]

Checkraising this flop is a very bad idea.

I can see why.

Thanks /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Michael

[Homer]

Thanks for the kind words, Major. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

-- Homer