KJos... I think I played it pretty good. Comments???

[Gomez22]

Empire - .50/1.00 - 9 players

I'm in BB - K /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, everyone to SB folds, SB calls, and I check.

FLOP: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, I bet out and everyone calls.

TURN: 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, I bet, UTG calls, rest fold

RIVER: 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet, UTG calls, I take it with Jacks. (UTG was holding A7 os)

2 Questions: Did I play this right? (For those who read my earlier dilema, I hope better than I played the K9s)

AND... Earlier I was sitting in BB with AQos. The flop was 892 rainbow. 6 callers, UTG bet was raised by UTG+1.... I folded.... 3 went to turn, which was A /images/graemlins/heart.gif. River was Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. The pot was won with pocket jacks. (I woulda had AAQQ) When a rag flop comes, should I stay in for the turn with AQ (or any 2 overcards for that matter?) even if it's 2 bets cold to me?

[felson]

You played the first hand perfectly.

In the second hand, you could raise preflop (not mandatory but still best). Once it's bet and raised to you on the flop, the pot is too small to chase your overcards with. Good fold.

[CMangano]

The KJ hand is very straightforward. About the only change that could be made here is maybe trying to check-raise the flop, but I think betting out is just fine.

As for the AQ hand, let's take a look. Sounds like 5 limpers to you pf (you said 6 saw the flop), so I think not raising here is ok. Anyways, that puts 3bb's in the pot on the flop. The flop is raggedy. There is a bet and a raise (and it sounds like someone calling 2?) in front of you. So, that means there are 5.5bb's (3bb's pf, 2.5bb's on the flop) in the pot when it gets to you, and it costs you 1 bb to call. You have at most 6 outs from 47 cards making you a ~7:1 dog on a 5.5:1 call, so this would be a bad call unless you are 100% sure a Q or an A will win you the hand AND you will pick up extra bets if you hit your hand.

Now, if it was just one bet back to you, you would be getting 9:1 on your call, which would make it correct (again assuming you are sure your A or Q will win you the pot).

It will be interesting to hear what others say.

[Gomez22]

Maybe I'm just stubborn, or raw to the ways of hold em, but I can't bring myself to raise PF with AQos.... Don't know what it is, but about the only hands I feel completely comfortable raising PF with right now are: AA, KK (only won 10% of hands with pocket kings... go figure), QQ, JJ (only about 50% of the time do I actually raise with it), and sometime AKs or AQs(If in late position).

[Gomez22]

I figured my outs after the raise and knew I was about 8-1 to make either Aces or Queens, and the pot odds were NOT correct, I understand that, but it was a small bet, and I cost myself the pot by playing too timidly.... I guess what I'm trying to say/ask is.....

Especially after seeing the turn and river, I feel that I played too timidly... not aggressive enough. I know this may not be the right way to look at it, but I have a problem right now with when to be aggressive and when to get the hell outta Dodge. I don't wnat to be a timid player, but I don't want to be a runaway freight train with my betting, especially this early on in my poker playing years. This was one of those times I wanted to be aggressive, but chose to not be because a raise "scared" me off. Some of the players at the low limits are so off the wall, it's unbelievable, and this was one time my gut told me to call, and I listened to the numbers. That's what I'm staring to understand is funny about Hold 'Em. You can play the numbers and be "safe", but that's not always the way to win a hand. (It DOES help with the losing part, though /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[CrackerZack]

Well played, fold the flop with overcards for 2 bets. In the AQo hand, was it raised PF? Did you raise PF? If it wasn't I think you should've but that's a huge debate here. Look back a couple of weeks and you should find a huge thread about raising AQo out of the blinds, there is also a JJ discussion which is similar and probably valuable to read.

Also, don't be results oriented, the fold was right even if you turned and rivered top 2. The earlier you learn to detach yourself from the results the better.

[CrackerZack]

If you aren't raising AQo frequently, especially at these limits, you're making a substantial mistake. If you aren't raising AKo or AKs and AQs, etc, every time, you're making a tremendous mistake.

[GrinningBuddha]

Maybe I'm just stubborn, or raw to the ways of hold em, but I can't bring myself to raise PF with AQos

At this point, AQo is my biggest money winner, beating even AA. Obviously this will change as I track more hands, but the fact remains that AQo is a very profitable hand, and I believe a large portion of those winnings are from raising preflop from almost any position. Try it, you'll like it! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[CrackerZack]

That being said, it is a good hand when you're the one raising. Be wary of it when its raised to you and you're holding AQ

[Gomez22]

Just for curiosity's sake..... Would high limit players also raise with AQos? You mentioned raising with it "at these stakes". Does that mean that some things change the higher the limit goes? Or is that just a basic concept? I could see raising with AQos sometimes, but all the time?

BTW - I'm playing at Empire right now and just got 10-6 suited 3 hands in a row..... what are the odds?

[CrackerZack]

[ QUOTE ]
Just for curiosity's sake..... Would high limit players also raise with AQos?

[/ QUOTE ]

First in to enter a pot, from any position, I would say you should raise about 100% of the time with this, any game any level. Even more true of AKo and AKs.

I mention at this level because people will call 2 cold with hands that you are way ahead of (Ax, QT, etc). Also, many players at this level will pay you off all the way with 2nd pair and weak kickers. This hand is so much better than theirs on average, you make a lot more by raising pre-flop every time if it isn't raised to you. If it is, you have to consider the raisers raising standards. Most of the time, unless I know the raiser is very loose, I'll fold AQo to a raise (and call AQs if I can expect another 2 callers or so), but I'll raise any number of limpers with AQo.

[Gomez22]

Thanks to your last post, I just raised AKos from the BB. I've never really done that before..... There were 2 raisers in front of me, so I made it 3 bets to go.....
Here's what happened.....

0.50/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Fri Aug 29 19:20:12 EDT 2003
Table Card Room Table 1689 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: LSoileau ( $13.25)
Seat 2: SlyChaps ( $54)
Seat 3: irish68 ( $20.75)
Seat 4: pocketrkts ( $24.75)
Seat 5: aihi50 ( $23.50)
Seat 6: ThumpinD ( $0)
Seat 7: roc5051 ( $13.50)
Seat 9: Gomez22 ( $20.75)
Seat 10: gwgilber ( $31)
roc5051 posts small blind (0.25)
Gomez22 posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Gomez22 [ As, Kh ]
gwgilber calls (0.50)
LSoileau calls (0.50)
SlyChaps raises (1) to 1
irish68 calls (1)
pocketrkts calls (1)
aihi50 folds.
roc5051 folds.
Gomez22 raises (1) to 1.50
gwgilber calls (1)
LSoileau folds.
SlyChaps calls (0.50)
irish68 calls (0.50)
pocketrkts calls (0.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 9c, Qc ]
Gomez22 bets (0.50)
gwgilber folds.
SlyChaps folds.
irish68 calls (0.50)
pocketrkts raises (1) to 1
Gomez22 calls (0.50)
irish68 calls (0.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jh ]
Gomez22 checks.
irish68 checks.
pocketrkts bets (1)
Gomez22 raises (2) to 2
irish68 calls (2)
pocketrkts calls (1)
** Dealing River ** : [ 5d ]
Gomez22 bets (1)
irish68 calls (1)
pocketrkts calls (1)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $19.25 | Rake: $1
Board: [ Tc 9c Qc Jh 5d ]
LSoileau balance $12.75, lost $0.50 (folded)
SlyChaps balance $52.50, lost $1.50 (folded)
irish68 balance $15.25, lost $5.50 [ Qd Ac ] [ a pair of queens -- Ac,Qd,Qc,Jh,Tc ]
pocketrkts balance $19.25, lost $5.50 [ Jc Ks ] [ a straight, nine to king -- Ks,Qc,Jc,Tc,9c ]
aihi50 balance $23.50, didn't bet (folded)
roc5051 balance $13.25, lost $0.25 (folded)
density148 balance $25, sits out
Gomez22 balance $34.50, bet $5.50, collected $19.25, net +$13.75 [ As Kh ] [ a straight, ten to ace -- As,Kh,Qc,Jh,Tc ]
gwgilber balance $29.50, lost $1.50 (folded)

Maybe I shoulda paid more attention to the single suited flop, but when pocktrkt didn't raise on the turn, I figured he didn't have the flush, so I went with it.

Comments, please???

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't bring myself to raise PF with AQos...the only hands I feel completely comfortable raising PF with right now are: AA, KK (only won 10% of hands with pocket kings... go figure), QQ, JJ (only about 50% of the time do I actually raise with it), and sometime AKs or AQs(If in late position).

[/ QUOTE ]

Fix the most important things first. Immediately staring raising 100% of the time with QQ and AKs. When you're comfortable with that, start raising 100% of the time with JJ and AKo. Then work on stuff like TT and AQo. It's fairly important to get yourself into a frame of mind where you are comfortable with playing your good hands aggressively.

[Dynasty]

It's rather amazing that you have little trouble value betting the river when straights and flushes are possible but you're remarkably timid pre-flop with hands as strong as QQ.

[CMangano]

I hope you are playing micro limits right now. Until you can make the correct play regardless of the results, you should not be playing for any kind of serious money. Here is how you have to look at it.

6 times you will lose 1bb when you miss.
1 time you will win 5.5bb's when you hit.

That is a profit of -.5bb. Get this same situation 100 times and you lose 50bb's EVEN IF YOU WIN THIS HAND. Granted, implied odds could change all that, but so could the fact that UTG may reraise and UTG+1 may cap, making your odds even worse. Not to mention your outs may not even be good. This is the entire essence of gambling. Get your money in when you have the best of it (the odds are in your favor) and save your money when you have the worst of it (odds not in your favor). If you don't, you will lose. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but you will lose.